Matchday thread: Rams v Sheffield Utd

[swaledale]

It?s not a ?hang up? it?s simply an observation and I?ve never attempted to judge success solely on who he has brought in. The discussion was about Warne?s signings. The point was that, imo, they?ve been very mixed and he owes a lot of last year?s success to previous acquisitions rather more than his own additions.

On the subject of Liverpool, I?d say Slot is hugely indebted to Klopp but deserves great credit for his fine tuning in his first season. Whether they win the title or not remains to be seen.

Anyway, we all want the same, so good luck to PW, lay off Clowes (not you GP) and, to echo Swale, COYR.

You are missing one point, its the manager/head coach in charge that ultimately is responsible for a teams success or failure. Ironic really, because if you'd focussed on Warnes tactics, his tendency to chop and change formations, not play a player in their strongest position you'd be justified in that criticism. Obviously as I've said we fans are not privy to Warne's thinking, the fitness and form of individual players and perhaps need to caveat any critique by recognising he probably hasn't yet got the squad he would like.

Similarly, whilst recognising that he has to date failed to keep a team in the championship after promotion, it was Rotherham who haven't the resources to strengthen the squad to be competitive at this level.

I think some good acquisitions have been made, now with some better luck on the injury front and Warne, taking note of MA's thoughts on a back 4, hopefully we might move forward.

[ramAnag]

You are missing one point, its the manager/head coach in charge that ultimately is responsible for a teams success or failure. Ironic really, because if you'd focussed on Warnes tactics, his tendency to chop and change formations, not play a player in their strongest position you'd be justified in that criticism. Obviously as I've said we fans are not privy to Warne's thinking, the fitness and form of individual players and perhaps need to caveat any critique by recognising he probably hasn't yet got the squad he would like.

Similarly, whilst recognising that he has to date failed to keep a team in the championship after promotion, it was Rotherham who haven't the resources to strengthen the squad to be competitive at this level.

I think some good acquisitions have been made, now with some better luck on the injury front and Warne, taking note of MA's thoughts on a back 4, hopefully we might move forward.

Not entirely sure of your point, Swale.

Mine was that his transfer dealings haven’t been as impressive as we hoped and I pointed to nine or ten signings who haven’t, imo, been value for money at a time when we’ve needed to make every penny count.

You now seem to be criticising his tactics including his formations. I agree with some of what you say and especially with MA’s thoughts on our defensive formation, but I’ve steered clear of commenting too much on the basis of, as you suggest, not being privy to PW’s thinking etc.

I don’t disagree that some good acquisitions have been made, but imo they’re a minority. I’m just not sure now, if my observations about signings are true, yours about chopping and changing and playing players out of position are accurate and MA’s observations about formation are well founded, how long he’s got before he’s held accountable for the position we find ourselves in.

[MadAmster]

Not entirely sure of your point, Swale.

Mine was that his transfer dealings haven’t been as impressive as we hoped and I pointed to nine or ten signings who haven’t, imo, been value for money at a time when we’ve needed to make every penny count.

You now seem to be criticising his tactics including his formations. I agree with some of what you say and especially with MA’s thoughts on our defensive formation, but I’ve steered clear of commenting too much on the basis of, as you suggest, not being privy to PW’s thinking etc.

I don’t disagree that some good acquisitions have been made, but imo they’re a minority. I’m just not sure now, if my observations about signings are true, yours about chopping and changing and playing players out of position are accurate and MA’s observations about formation are well founded, how long he’s got before he’s held accountable for the position we find ourselves in.

I think he's got just under 1.5 seasons to turn things around. For no other reason that David Clowes isn't going to sack him, IMO.

[swaledale]

Not entirely sure of your point, Swale.

Mine was that his transfer dealings haven?t been as impressive as we hoped and I pointed to nine or ten signings who haven?t, imo, been value for money at a time when we?ve needed to make every penny count.

You now seem to be criticising his tactics including his formations. I agree with some of what you say and especially with MA?s thoughts on our defensive formation, but I?ve steered clear of commenting too much on the basis of, as you suggest, not being privy to PW?s thinking etc.

I don?t disagree that some good acquisitions have been made, but imo they?re a minority. I?m just not sure now, if my observations about signings are true, yours about chopping and changing and playing players out of position are accurate and MA?s observations about formation are well founded, how long he?s got before he?s held accountable for the position we find ourselves in.

OK how impressive did you hope the signings were going to be given the EFL financial restrictions on both transfer fees and wages?

You did indeed point to some signings that you thought weren't "value for money" - 1 was Waghorn picked up on a free who scored 7 goals and played 27 games in our promotion season until injury cut short his contribution, how was he a "poor" signing?

I also pointed out others including Bradley, who were good L1 squad players and provided back up when required.

I also pointed out that even the great Pep at Man City makes "poor" signings, but they cost in excess of ?40 million a pop and he has numerous scouts, analysts as well as the financial and club status clout. So perhaps Warne operating on a shoe string until last summer (and not overly flush with funds even then) has actually done rather well?

My point is that you bang on about poor signings - overlooking both injuries and the fact Derby were shopping in the bargain basement when the facts are very few were poor in the sense that they made no contribution to the team. Yes some have suffered injuries, some recurring including Roony who you seem to rate yet has really only played a handful of games as yet due to injury. CBT, Ward had good track records as L1 players when signed, injury has stopped them fulfilling their potential, how is that Wanre's fault or bad judgement?

I just get the impression that you take no consideration as to how and why those players were signed, in a squad which got automatic promotion this season.

[Trickytreesreds]

Give Cooper a ring, you know you want to .

[macstheman]

I think he's got just under 1.5 seasons to turn things around. For no other reason that David Clowes isn't going to sack him, IMO.

I agree, he's invested too much (both money and personal commitment) into Warne. He's not going to waiver because we are wobbling as he probably isn't convinced that a change of manager is the way forward and I am sure that he has included relegation as a possibility in his thinking. Obviously, like all of us, he hopes that that can be avoided and I think his release of funds in the transfer window shows that he thinks Warne can turn it around.

I hope he's right if only because of what he did for the club in the time of its greatest need. Unfortunately, the atmosphere at PP could and probably will turn unpleasant if results continue in their current vein.
Let's be honest Rams fans seem to have developed some sense of entitlement believing that we have some divine right to be at least challenging for promo to, if not in, the PL. They should remember recent past events and realise that, if their miniscule brains are capable of logical thought, we are still recovering from near extinction. However, that ain't going to happen so Mr Clowes is now reliant on Warne to bring home the bacon and justify his support.

Personally, I'm doubtful it can be turned around. Don't forget though, there's always next season and that looked unlikely at one point after the MM debacle!

[MadAmster]

I agree, he's invested too much (both money and personal commitment) into Warne. He's not going to waiver because we are wobbling as he probably isn't convinced that a change of manager is the way forward and I am sure that he has included relegation as a possibility in his thinking. Obviously, like all of us, he hopes that that can be avoided and I think his release of funds in the transfer window shows that he thinks Warne can turn it around.

I hope he's right if only because of what he did for the club in the time of its greatest need. Unfortunately, the atmosphere at PP could and probably will turn unpleasant if results continue in their current vein.
Let's be honest Rams fans seem to have developed some sense of entitlement believing that we have some divine right to be at least challenging for promo to, if not in, the PL. They should remember recent past events and realise that, if their miniscule brains are capable of logical thought, we are still recovering from near extinction. However, that ain't going to happen so Mr Clowes is now reliant on Warne to bring home the bacon and justify his support.

Personally, I'm doubtful it can be turned around. Don't forget though, there's always next season and that looked unlikely at one point after the MM debacle!

Agree re: fans. 6 months ago it was "survival would be great". Now, it seems the fact that we had a L1 squad on July 1st, not much money to get Champ level players in and still, up to last week, had about 20% of the squad of Champ level. We might now be up to 1/3. The rest are L1 level and some of them are shadows of their former selves.

You can't level that at PW. He isn't the one who sources players. He isn't the one who negotiates fees and wages. Once the deal is all but finalised, he has a (video) chat with the player and has the final say. Doesn't stop the mindless from having a go at him because HE has "faied" in the transfer window.

[ramAnag]

I agree, he's invested too much (both money and personal commitment) into Warne. He's not going to waiver because we are wobbling as he probably isn't convinced that a change of manager is the way forward and I am sure that he has included relegation as a possibility in his thinking. Obviously, like all of us, he hopes that that can be avoided and I think his release of funds in the transfer window shows that he thinks Warne can turn it around.

I hope he's right if only because of what he did for the club in the time of its greatest need. Unfortunately, the atmosphere at PP could and probably will turn unpleasant if results continue in their current vein.
Let's be honest Rams fans seem to have developed some sense of entitlement believing that we have some divine right to be at least challenging for promo to, if not in, the PL. They should remember recent past events and realise that, if their miniscule brains are capable of logical thought, we are still recovering from near extinction. However, that ain't going to happen so Mr Clowes is now reliant on Warne to bring home the bacon and justify his support.

Personally, I'm doubtful it can be turned around. Don't forget though, there's always next season and that looked unlikely at one point after the MM debacle!

We seem to be in something of a conundrum. People on here are largely good natured and want only what is best for the club.
I think virtually everyone agrees that we should be grateful to Mr. Clowes and that, to an large extent, he is beyond criticism.

On the other hand, despite being broadly supportive, there is criticism of PW on here. It’s never particularly nasty - as I believe it is in other quarters - but I don’t necessarily think it’s ‘entitlement’ that leads to such criticism.

The typical hope and expectation from any realistic fan this season would have been survival and being relatively comfortable in lower mid table and that’s nothing like what we’ve seen for the last three plus months.
MA suggests he has one and a half seasons left to prove himself. While respecting his opinion I can’t agree. That could well see us yo-yoing between L1 and the Championship for the foreseeable and I don’t think fans will accept that. For me the result at home to Oxford is hugely important. Lose the next two and the reaction will become toxic. Get relegated and I feel he has to go.

[MadAmster]

Losing to 8th placed Norwich is a likelihood and I fully expect it to happen. Bookies agree. Betting 1 gbp would see the following returns

Norwich to win 1.75 GBP (3/4 in old money - you win 75p and get your quid back)
Draw 3.60 GBP (2.6/1 - you win 2 pound 60 plus your quid)
Derby to win 4.75 GBP (3.75/1 - you win 3 pound 75 plus your quid)

Oxford is, to me, a must win game, as is QPR and Millwall is a mustn't lose, at the moment but not getting 6 points from QPR and Oxford would make it a must win.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Is Fred Karno still playing for Chesterfield?