O/T Trans in America

[Yak]

Everything is political nowadays. It?s either left wing woke or right wing racist.
There is no sensible debate because the bigot or racist tag gets thrown at people.
My brother who is a devout Christian works for a well known car dealership. He was asked to put a rainbow flag on his e Mail signature. He refused he had to have a meeting with HR. He told HR I have 2 Muslim sales people work for me let?s get them in the meeting and ask them to put it on their e Mail signature. The meeting finished. His manager called him the day after and said they are going to drop it as they don?t want to open a can of worms.
Funny that isn?t it
It?s not the Muslims fault it?s their core beliefs and I think that should be respected. But so should my brothers.
Personally I?m happy to let everyone live their life how they want it?s no problem but there is an issue with forcing agendas on people.

[animallittle3]

It's amazing which subjects the so called liberal progressives wish to take up .

Thousands of young white working class girls were rapped by predominantly Pakistani men over the last 20 years in the UK and not a word .

Yet an Italian chef is allegedly inappropriate and the witch hunt is taken up with relish .

The Metoo movement going in to overdrive but where were you for the girls of Rochdale , Oldham or Telford ?

Where was Hope Not Hate for these young girls ? , too busy trying to expose Tommy Robinson as a racist no doubt given his investigations in to these grooming rape gang crimes .

[Spuddy Speight]

Today's match day theme at the NYS is

"Football v Homophobia".

The mobile phone hotline number to report any discriminatory behaviour is 07507 449121.

[frogmiller]

I'm not sure what your case is.

You're going on about extreme examples of pride events as though they're normal and representative.

I wasn't saying the examples I gave of football fans are "normal", I was making the exact point that to cherry pick such examples is wrong and a misrepresentation.

Extremists "taking control" sounds so foam mouthy. What have "they" taken control of? And who are "they"?

I think your brain has been turned mushy by overconsumption of misinformation and you're increasingly disconnected from reality unfortunately.

Thank you!

[KerrAvon]

Everything is political nowadays. It?s either left wing woke or right wing racist.
There is no sensible debate because the bigot or racist tag gets thrown at people.
My brother who is a devout Christian works for a well known car dealership. He was asked to put a rainbow flag on his e Mail signature. He refused he had to have a meeting with HR. He told HR I have 2 Muslim sales people work for me let?s get them in the meeting and ask them to put it on their e Mail signature. The meeting finished. His manager called him the day after and said they are going to drop it as they don?t want to open a can of worms.
Funny that isn?t it
It?s not the Muslims fault it?s their core beliefs and I think that should be respected. But so should my brothers.
Personally I?m happy to let everyone live their life how they want it?s no problem but there is an issue with forcing agendas on people.

Is it only the use of tags such as 'racist' or 'bigot' that is used to stifle debate or are tags such as 'left wing woke' and 'liberal progressives' also rather unhelpful? I'd say it's both, which is why I tend to use none of them.

Are you saying that it was your brother's Christian beliefs that caused him to object to adopting the email style that his employer wished him to use or is he one of the 'thousands of people in the UK that find LGB people abhorrent' that Grist has very fairly acknowledged the existence of? If it was the former, then fair enough. I find such religious views to be somewhat baffling and struggle to understand how they continue to persist, but I would defend his right to hold them. If it's the latter then his employers are entitled to bear that in mind when determining whether he continues to fit with the ethos of the company.

I too am happy to let people live their lives as they wish, with the caveat that it is necessary to bear in mind the rights of others when doing so.

The ability of LGB people to live their lives as they wish and to express themselves according to who they are have come on in leaps and bounds in my lifetime, but as Grist pointed out, there is still a long way to go. For that reason, I can't see the actions of your brother's employer in seeking to adopt a particular email style as an act of trying to force an agenda. And in the end, it could be said that it was your brother's agenda that won out.

[KerrAvon]

It's amazing which subjects the so called liberal progressives wish to take up .

Thousands of young white working class girls were rapped by predominantly Pakistani men over the last 20 years in the UK and not a word .

Yet an Italian chef is allegedly inappropriate and the witch hunt is taken up with relish .

The Metoo movement going in to overdrive but where were you for the girls of Rochdale , Oldham or Telford ?

Where was Hope Not Hate for these young girls ? , too busy trying to expose Tommy Robinson as a racist no doubt given his investigations in to these grooming rape gang crimes .

What exactly is Gino D'Acampo accused of? If you don’t know then isn’t it rather unwise to suggest that he is the victim of a witch hunt?

I suppose that we could just put celebrities on a pedestal and think them beyond criticism. How did that work out with Jimmy Saville?

I don't know the detail of what D'Acampo is accused of and certainly not whether those accusations are true. I note that he has denied any wrong doing. What I do know is that celebrities are in the business of projecting of an image of who they are. That's their job. If a celebrity acts in a manner that projects a less pleasing image, they can’t really complain about the consequences.

Tommy Robinson makes a very good living out of what he does. You should bear that in mind when lionising him and his 'investigations'.

[KerrAvon]

On the initial post, I think trans rights (which have no relation to gay rights despite the apparent belief of some posters) is a difficult area because they can readily conflict with the rights of others.

In sport, my view is that it is that it will often be impossible to reconcile the rights of trans people with those of other competitors. To state the obvious, the position is that any prolonged exposure to male *** hormones is likely to result in the permanent increase of bone length and density and muscle mass, which has the capacity to give an advantage in any sport where those features are likely to enhance performance

Where the lack of a 'level playing field' creates a conflict between the rights of trans athlete and others, I would argue that the position of the majority must hold sway. That is not an easy or pleasant outcome for trans athletes, however, and that needs to be acknowledged.

I agree with raging's point about the dropping of 'T' from American government documents. It is a cruel and unnecessary act and suggests that Trump's interest in the issue is as a piece of performative politics as opposed to any real concern over level playing fields in sport or other areas of life.