O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

[swaledale]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

Well I could hardly do a worse job!

A leader has to make tough decisions, have good judgement, listen to what is advised, take account of experience elsewhere and then make a judgement. Above all they need to build up trust, such that even when things go wrong, which they will, people can see that they have made their best efforts. In fact the best leaders shine when confronted with situations which are different and something they have not experienced before.

I have a simple maxim, almost anyone can manage or lead when things are going well, the very good ones can manage when everything is going to Sh*t! I made a very good career out of turning round failing companies and organisations and indeed the last few years since Brexit became a reality were some of the best I've had. Its now very gratifying to be told by people I've worked for, that thank goodness I helped them prepare, because it means that despite what has subsequently happened, they have been able to continue operating efficiently.

On the other hand if you elect as a leader, a man who has been twice sacked from jobs for proven lies, who has no qualms about lying, does not have a grasp of detail nor the desire to attempt to understand it, whose main aim in life is to further his own interests, who supports a course of action not because he believes its the right thing to do, but because he believes it is the best way of furthering his ambitions.

A man who famously does not even bother to understand the detail of issues, who finds it difficult even in bad times to portray an air of authority or seriousness, who habitually acts without transparency, who cannot handle pressure, thinks leadership is backing a member of his team that explicitly breaks rules he has told others to obey, and famously said "F@ck Business".

One who is cavalier about maintaining international relations, who makes promises he has no intention of keeping or even worse knows he cannot keep, thinks bullying by a senior member of his team is acceptable, picks people for his team on the basis of their willingness to "suck up" to him, rather than their competence and thinks its acceptable to appoint people with no qualifications and experience for critical jobs simply on the basis that they are friends, relatives or members of his social circle.


All of the above is factually true, so what makes you supportive of him and give him and his incompetent government the benefit of the doubt? Why should he be immune from criticism?

[ramAnag]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

I do wish that, just for once, you’d say what you believe rather than just snipe meaninglessly from the sidelines, Parky.

I put forward a rational argument last night for why Gavin Williamson has lost all credibility and all you could do in response was offer a childlike and unintelligible response.
Likewise, Swale’s post above (#556) is, imo, completely correct...but again all you can come up with is a juvenile and personal response.

This is a forum...comments about the Government’s handling of Covid have rightly been kept to this thread...if you disagree with the opinions expressed then at least have the sense and maturity to explain why rather than continually interrupting with infantile comments.

So, I’ll try again...how does it make sense for primary schools in London to be closed and schools elsewhere in the country, but also in Tier 4, to be open...and why has this decision, yet again, been left to the very last minute?

[Andy_Faber]

So, I’ll try again...how does it make sense for primary schools in London to be closed and schools elsewhere in the country, but also in Tier 4, to be open?

It doesn’t. But nothing makes sense at present, and HMG are in the middle of a **** storm like no other about which no-one has a common opinion. Example, on the news this am a union leader was given free rein to slag HMG for (amongst other things) allowing schools to stay open, then (and good for BBC to allow a rare balanced view) a few minutes later an actual front line practitioner ie a head, says ‘no problem here’ (her school) and demonstrates how they are keeping the virus at bay and stressing the mental health benefits of remaining open. She stated (I can’t prove it) that she had the backing of ALL parents. So on that basis, where the doers and the strategists can’t agree, what’s the answer? Howard Devoto had a point back in the day: shot by both sides

[Geoff Parkstone]

OK, I don't know why. Maybe because those in charge know stuff you don't. In fact that's pretty much a certainty. They might be right, they might be wrong, I do not know. I'll lay a pound to a penny that you don't either.

As for why are decisions last minute. Well I really don't understand why that needs explanation. Circumstances re the virus change rapidly, decisions need to mirror that. It ain't rocket science. If everyone was equipped with your wisdom after the event, decision making would be easy.

Tell me, which is easiest. Taking tough decisions knowing they are likely to need changing again or again, or doing nothing. Which is easiest, making decisions or moaning after they proved wrong, while ignoring the successes?

You wonder why I "snipe from the sidelines" - Simple. I've had a bloody good role model posting on here who has taught me well. He'd have made a good teacher - in fact probably did.

[swaledale]

OK, I don't know why. Maybe because those in charge know stuff you don't. In fact that's pretty much a certainty. They might be right, they might be wrong, I do not know. I'll lay a pound to a penny that you don't either.

As for why are decisions last minute. Well I really don't understand why that needs explanation. Circumstances re the virus change rapidly, decisions need to mirror that. It ain't rocket science. If everyone was equipped with your wisdom after the event, decision making would be easy.

Tell me, which is easiest. Taking tough decisions knowing they are likely to need changing again or again, or doing nothing. Which is easiest, making decisions or moaning after they proved wrong, while ignoring the successes?

You wonder why I "snipe from the sidelines" - Simple. I've had a bloody good role model posting on here who has taught me well. He'd have made a good teacher - in fact probably did.

All that may be true, but good competent government manage to at least appear that they have a strategy, are transparent about what facts and evidence they are using or basing their decisions on and are able to coherently explain what they are doing and why they are doing it.

Something this government hasn't managed to do at all during this crisis.

Of course there will always be different opinions and the agenda of some of those making points can be questioned, BUT if your a government that has habitually told lies, been obscure, been more intent on making political points than dealing with issues, ignored the offer by the opposition to work with you on this matter, then I guess they can't be surprised that a large number of people find them incompetent and don't actually trust what they say?

Its those who seem to want to bend over backwards to make excuses for the **** show they are running which is most surprising. Makes me think that their judgement is somewhat open to question.

[ramAnag]

OK, I don't know why. Maybe because those in charge know stuff you don't. In fact that's pretty much a certainty. They might be right, they might be wrong, I do not know. I'll lay a pound to a penny that you don't either.

As for why are decisions last minute. Well I really don't understand why that needs explanation. Circumstances re the virus change rapidly, decisions need to mirror that. It ain't rocket science. If everyone was equipped with your wisdom after the event, decision making would be easy.

Tell me, which is easiest. Taking tough decisions knowing they are likely to need changing again or again, or doing nothing. Which is easiest, making decisions or moaning after they proved wrong, while ignoring the successes?

You wonder why I "snipe from the sidelines" - Simple. I've had a bloody good role model posting on here who has taught me well. He'd have made a good teacher - in fact probably did.

I was going to say thanks...then I read on and you just can’t resist the jibes can you?

Of course they have access to more data than I do...they’re the Government...but even with such access Williamson gets it wrong time and time again and the first warnings about the ‘new’ variant were given on 21st September!
He got it wrong on exams last academic year and had to backtrack and apologise.
He/they got it wrong on school meals and only corrected things on the basis of a what they were told by a celebrity footballer.
He got it wrong on sending students en masse to their University cities helping the spread of the virus but not providing anything remotely like the student experience you and I would have known...what is the point of moving to another city in the middle of a pandemic to do largely online learning?
Now he’s getting it wrong again. He threatened Greenwich with legal action before Christmas if they closed their schools then, three days later, he ordered their closure. Now, because of the Covid threat within Tier 4, he’s ordered the closure of all London schools but thinks it’s okay for all other Tier 4 schools to open.

It’s nonsense and I haven’t ‘ignored the successes’, it’s just that there aren’t any at the moment in this particular area. Neither am I being wise after the event...term isn’t due to start until tomorrow at the earliest so how can you argue that?

[Geoff Parkstone]

All that may be true, but good competent government manage to at least appear that they have a strategy, are transparent about what facts and evidence they are using or basing their decisions on and are able to coherently explain

Transparency is an intriguing aspect. Given the rapidly changing environment and the complexity of the underlying decision making, influenced by many different factors, not just health or education, I'm not sure there is time to explain all the thought processes before the next decision rolls by. And even if they did, as you have repeatedly observed, most people would be too thick to understand the factors.

Your comments are spot on in a "normal environment" but in the current "emergency" such processes might simply hamper the efficiency of response and serve little purpose. I can only compare it to a wartime scenario as regards speed and complexity of decision making. The powers that be plan the Normandy invasion, but someone here would want it all explained in detail before being put into effect, resulting in the enemy being prepared and the mission failing. Thus allowing further complaint about wrong decision being made.

Some things have to go on trust, and I'll grant that current government is sadly low on trustworthiness, but that doesn't mean every choice is wrong. Even flipping a coin is right half the time!

[ramAnag]

Transparency is an intriguing aspect. Given the rapidly changing environment and the complexity of the underlying decision making, influenced by many different factors, not just health or education, I'm not sure there is time to explain all the thought processes before the next decision rolls by. And even if they did, as you have repeatedly observed, most people would be too thick to understand the factors.

Your comments are spot on in a "normal environment" but in the current "emergency" such processes might simply hamper the efficiency of response and serve little purpose. I can only compare it to a wartime scenario as regards speed and complexity of decision making. The powers that be plan the Normandy invasion, but someone here would want it all explained in detail before being put into effect, resulting in the enemy being prepared and the mission failing. Thus allowing further complaint about wrong decision being made.

Some things have to go on trust, and I'll grant that current government is sadly low on trustworthiness, but that doesn't mean every choice is wrong. Even flipping a coin is right half the time!

The difference between a wartime scenario and a pandemic scenario is surely that...in wartime secrecy is an essential requirement, in a pandemic the essential requirement is the understanding and compliance of an informed public. You won’t get the latter from a Government that continually makes mistakes and contradicts itself.

[MadAmster]

Just to muddy the waters. Why has the government not said anything about the Portuguese High Court ruling of November 11th 2020 that the PCR test isn't fit for purpose? Why has Mainstream Media appeared to have completely ignored it?