O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Heee-Haww, Hee-Haww, Heee-Haww

Very good, well done...thanks for that Parky. To slightly misquote Keir Starmer...if you have nothing intelligible to say, best to say nowt.

Now...instead of your vain attempts at ridicule why not tell us all why, after yet another cock up and last minute ‘U turn’, Mr. Williamson deserves to remain in post?

[Andy_Faber]

Very good, well done...thanks for that Parky. To slightly misquote Keir Starmer...if you have nothing intelligible to say, best to say nowt.

Now...instead of your vain attempts at ridicule why not tell us all why, after yet another cock up and last minute ‘U turn’, Mr. Williamson deserves to remain in post?

I think with the friction around here at present you perhaps need another opinion. If I were hiring and firing I would keep Williamson for the simple reason that the same (some deserved some not) unrelenting pressure would be applied by ‘those who choose to’ to his successor, and his successor’s successor, who may or may not make better decisions. You surely don’t think he actually WANTS to be doing his job at the moment do you?

[ramAnag]

I think with the friction around here at present you perhaps need another opinion. If I were hiring and firing I would keep Williamson for the simple reason that the same (some deserved some not) unrelenting pressure would be applied by ‘those who choose to’ to his successor, and his successor’s successor, who may or may not make better decisions. You surely don’t think he actually WANTS to be doing his job at the moment do you?

I really have no interest in what he ‘wants’ AF. The question is whether he’s capable.
As I understand it we’re talking about a man who ten or so years ago was selling fireplaces and running a ceramics business.
He turned to politics...joined forces with May, publicly stated his opposition to Johnson, became Chief Whip, became Defence Secretary, before being sacked for giving away secrets and then accepted ‘education’ from the very leader he had sworn his opposition to.
It’s more like something from ‘Game of Thrones’ and I imagine his ambition probably means he does want it.

Beyond that he has done so many ‘U turns’ as Education Secretary I imagine he’s dizzy but this last one would be laughable if it were not so serious.
We’re told, quite rightly, that everyone has to obey the rules that are defined by the tiers we live in which in turn are defined by the levels of Covid ‘contagion’ within specific areas.
Then along comes the Education Secretary suggesting firstly that areas of London (all in Tier 4) should be treated differently and, when he’s forced by the science ( and common sense) to backtrack on that, continues to attempt to distinguish between primary school attendance in the capital and that in other Tier 4 areas.
Where is the sense? Where is the leadership...and when does this row erupt? Right at the end of the Christmas holidays, literally 40 odd hours before parents have got to deal with providing for their children in the likely absence of schooling for many. You couldn’t make it up.

[Andy_Faber]

For those who usually choose to slag off or praise HMG without actually thinking things through, and that it appears includes the media because I can't find any supporting info, so, I ran a model myself and the impact of giving the second virus shot after 12 weeks instead of 3 is:

From next week (assuming NHS hit the million a week ambition), 500,000 souls will receive their first vac (so, effectively, protection from death at least) nine weeks earlier (because the vaccs will all be first-use not booster). Under the old regime the allocation would have been half and half first-use and booster
For the next nine weeks 500,000 a week more will have been vaccd than under the old method so 4,500,000 folk
by week 10 (week 13 for early adopters) the benefit per week is lost because 500,000 of the vaccs MUST be used by then s boosters.
So that's the limit of it - a nine-week acceleration benefitting 4,500,000 people. a useful tweak but not a gamechanger
What is absolutely key is being able to deploy all 1 million vaccs, from NOW. Any failure in that is an opportunity lost for ever

[Andy_Faber]

I really have no interest in what he ‘wants’ AF. The question is whether he’s capable.
As I understand it we’re talking about a man who ten or so years ago was selling fireplaces and running a ceramics business.
He turned to politics...joined forces with May, publicly stated his opposition to Johnson, became Chief Whip, became Defence Secretary, before being sacked for giving away secrets and then accepted ‘education’ from the very leader he had sworn his opposition to.
It’s more like something from ‘Game of Thrones’ and I imagine his ambition probably means he does want it.

Beyond that he has done so many ‘U turns’ as Education Secretary I imagine he’s dizzy but this last one would be laughable if it were not so serious.
We’re told, quite rightly, that everyone has to obey the rules that are defined by the tiers we live in which in turn are defined by the levels of Covid ‘contagion’ within specific areas.
Then along comes the Education Secretary suggesting firstly that areas of London (all in Tier 4) should be treated differently and, when he’s forced by the science ( and common sense) to backtrack on that, continues to attempt to distinguish between primary school attendance in the capital and that in other Tier 4 areas.
Where is the sense? Where is the leadership...and when does this row erupt? Right at the end of the Christmas holidays, literally 40 odd hours before parents have got to deal with providing for their children in the likely absence of schooling for many. You couldn’t make it up.

I'm not saying he's any cop rA, just that any successor will be hauled over the coals in the same way. I personally want him gone just for his perpetual mispronunciation of the word 'the'.

[swaledale]

It is right to celebrate the arrival of the AstraZeneca vaccine, though we should also note the pitfalls that await us. We are led by a government that has bungled so much of the Covid response – from its initial, criminally tardy response to the virus, to the shambolic distribution of PPE kit for health workers, to the pitiful rollout of test-and-trace programmes and to the bewildering U-turns on lockdown measures, not closing borders quickly, the foolish decision to allow millions of students to travel countrywide to University's, the shambolic management at schools, categorised by not least by the last minute decision before Christmas to order mass testing in schools without saying who would do it and how it would be done.

We need drive and competence to undertake the speedy administration of the vaccine to millions of UK citizens. These qualities have not been displayed in abundance by the government to date.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

[swaledale]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

Well I could hardly do a worse job!

A leader has to make tough decisions, have good judgement, listen to what is advised, take account of experience elsewhere and then make a judgement. Above all they need to build up trust, such that even when things go wrong, which they will, people can see that they have made their best efforts. In fact the best leaders shine when confronted with situations which are different and something they have not experienced before.

I have a simple maxim, almost anyone can manage or lead when things are going well, the very good ones can manage when everything is going to Sh*t! I made a very good career out of turning round failing companies and organisations and indeed the last few years since Brexit became a reality were some of the best I've had. Its now very gratifying to be told by people I've worked for, that thank goodness I helped them prepare, because it means that despite what has subsequently happened, they have been able to continue operating efficiently.

On the other hand if you elect as a leader, a man who has been twice sacked from jobs for proven lies, who has no qualms about lying, does not have a grasp of detail nor the desire to attempt to understand it, whose main aim in life is to further his own interests, who supports a course of action not because he believes its the right thing to do, but because he believes it is the best way of furthering his ambitions.

A man who famously does not even bother to understand the detail of issues, who finds it difficult even in bad times to portray an air of authority or seriousness, who habitually acts without transparency, who cannot handle pressure, thinks leadership is backing a member of his team that explicitly breaks rules he has told others to obey, and famously said "F@ck Business".

One who is cavalier about maintaining international relations, who makes promises he has no intention of keeping or even worse knows he cannot keep, thinks bullying by a senior member of his team is acceptable, picks people for his team on the basis of their willingness to "suck up" to him, rather than their competence and thinks its acceptable to appoint people with no qualifications and experience for critical jobs simply on the basis that they are friends, relatives or members of his social circle.


All of the above is factually true, so what makes you supportive of him and give him and his incompetent government the benefit of the doubt? Why should he be immune from criticism?

[swaledale]

I think with the friction around here at present you perhaps need another opinion. If I were hiring and firing I would keep Williamson for the simple reason that the same (some deserved some not) unrelenting pressure would be applied by ‘those who choose to’ to his successor, and his successor’s successor, who may or may not make better decisions. You surely don’t think he actually WANTS to be doing his job at the moment do you?

If he doesn't WANT to be doing the job, then he should resign surely? These people are supposed to be leaders, sure there will always be criticism, but a good leader will tackle that by being consultative, transparent and collaborative, so that when tough or unpopular decisions are made, then the majority will accept them.

The real issue here surely is that we have a clearly incompetent person as PM, who has appointed incompetent people on the basis of their ability to "suck up to him" rather than their capabilities? I mean if you keep people in place when they either break the rules you ahve instructed other people to follow, or bully their staff, then your judgement as a leader has to be called into account?

It is after all not that difficult to demonstrate you ahve a strategy based on evidence, rather than flip flop from one decison to another and constantly contradict oneself? Would you really keep such a person in post? Really?

[ramAnag]

I think we should put you in charge of UK covid response, Swale, given your inability to ever make a mistake

I do wish that, just for once, you’d say what you believe rather than just snipe meaninglessly from the sidelines, Parky.

I put forward a rational argument last night for why Gavin Williamson has lost all credibility and all you could do in response was offer a childlike and unintelligible response.
Likewise, Swale’s post above (#556) is, imo, completely correct...but again all you can come up with is a juvenile and personal response.

This is a forum...comments about the Government’s handling of Covid have rightly been kept to this thread...if you disagree with the opinions expressed then at least have the sense and maturity to explain why rather than continually interrupting with infantile comments.

So, I’ll try again...how does it make sense for primary schools in London to be closed and schools elsewhere in the country, but also in Tier 4, to be open...and why has this decision, yet again, been left to the very last minute?