OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[southernram22]

i agree ramanag we should sort out ourselves but as you say most other countrys are just as bad it reminds me of live aid and where
most of the moneies ended up greed is a very dangerous thing . and if they took lester piggots knighthood away so phillip greens should follow as he does not even live here monaco i believe. tbh i think its worse doing it to our own directly . prime ministers first mistake she has not as yet spoken out against the honors list.

[swaledale]

what makes me sad swale ramanag being in or out wont stop the unprecedented fall in to greed and cronyism that has been escalating in recent decades . sir phillip green a crook and he knows it. now mr cameron has listed his cronies for honours and they cannot be blocked its no wonder the normal people of this country dismay at politicians . in this statement you make see insight into many millions of views that europe was just a way of showing the elite that we do see beyond the facade put up. corrupt and criminal laws made by the elite and not bringing about change has made the masses say up yours mr cameron you see what a telling picture of britain this paints. then you see the gravy train brussels is on and you realise why people said no more. for many parts of the population the eu was generous helpful a way of financing various projects. for the more modest humble people who voted to leave it was just seen as a way for the rich to become richer .lady wheatcroft a financial journalist who is so far adrift of reality its embarrasing. there thats my say . mr camerons wifes hairdresser really is that what the honours list means paying debts to a few elite. let the football begin

I agree with most of what you have posted! I think a lot of the leave vote was by people who were sick of being ignored and shat on, the unfortunate thing is that their vote wont change their circumstances and may even be detrimental to them.

There is no doubt that for all the widely lauded words (repeated by May in her first speech) about governing for those who dont have power and just want an opportunity for a decent standard of living I fear that those who wield the power and influence , call them corporate elites, the establishment whatever will be the winners and the words like so many others will be just that.

Now if we were France or elsewhere, then I would anticipate riots if people dont see any change for the better, but the Uk does not really do that sort of mass protest.

Ironically Corbyn actually speaks a fair bit of truth, but does not seem capable of articulating that in a way that galvanises people.

[southernram22]

well said swale . yes politics in this country must chang

[swaledale]

Andy, all people have to do is look at the bigger picture.
The Superstate- it has and is still the plan. Some people may not have a problem with it, but I do. Don't give me all this *******s that it won't get voted in. You only have to open your eyes and ears. They talk about it all the time.
Europe is to be dismantled.
Quotes from Junker or any of the others. They talk about all the points openly.

That means-
1. One currency
2. One law court
3. One army
3.one government
4. one set of policies.

Not my words, THEIRS!!

There was scoffing of the Koudenhove Kalergi plan as a conspiracy. Really?
The EU has a prize in its name, for the most influential person to push its ideals. (Merkel) is a former winner.
Read it and form your own conclusions.
All this has been going on, slowly and surely for over 50 years. Do your own research.
We may never get to end game in my life time, but we;re getting there.
So yes, as a silent majority. Lots of folks have looked at how quickly their area or country has changed and said, enough!!
Slate that all you like, but that is the crux of it.

Swale and Anag, come up with lies/lies/lies. Would never dispute that fact, but you guys never mention the remain lies and lets be honest here. The whoppers told were incredible.
Many of the so called experts quoted have since been found out.
The IMF needs disbanding after its recent outbursts. Everyone knows it is EU influenced.
From the doom prophecies of not joining the Euro/ to the economy implosion the day we leave.

As for sturgeon, well she has never changed her stance. I wouldn't want the UK held to ransom to pacify 5 million Jocks.
Fact is, her leave campaign is really thin anyway and recent polls in jock land suggest she is greatly misjudging the situation.
But EU or not, the SNP are never going to let this go.
If they really want it, just GO.

I do despair when you get all excited over conspiracy theories - yes there are politicians and other powerful figures within the Eu who favour closer integration, yes the \euro became apolitical rather than an economic project and yes there is a lack of border controls within the EU (which are being rexamined in the light of recent events), but the Uk had remained in the EU and not participated in those, so your conjecture that at some stage in the future, the Uk would accept all these and become part of the european superstate its possible, but no Uk government has ever seemed likely to go down that road and whilst in the Eu we had a unique veto.

Yes we have cast doubt on the remain campaign's liberal interpretation of the facts and almost panic stricken doom mongering - as for institutions like the IMF, well economic forecasts are just that and need to be taken with some cynicism, though of course it may well take a decade or so to truly establish whether leaving the EU was good or bad for the country.

37% of the population is not the silent majority is it? And as I pointed out, people in ares which have had no mass immigration were stating that as the reason they voted leave, so clearly they werent talking from personal experience.

As the research indicated, there was a strong correlation between those who harked backed to the "good old days" who were in favour of the death penalty and socially conservative and those who voted leave, irrespective of social class or wealth.

If there was one thing that is true, its that the world changes and leaving the Eu is not going to stop that, so a hell of a lot of people who voted for Brexit are going to be very disappointed when things dont change they way they expect.

If in the next decade, inward investment reduces and firms relocate to the EU, taking those jobs with them, then people at the sharp end are going to be worse off, many of them will have voted for Brexit when maybe they should have voted for government with socially cohesive policies?

[swaledale]

well said swale . yes politics in this country must chang

But people seem to like either smooth talking sharp suited PR as in Cameron or those apparent rebels like Trump and Farage who pretend they understand the "ordinary folk" but in reality just feed their fears to further their own agendas.

[ramAnag]

But people seem to like either smooth talking sharp suited PR as in Cameron or those apparent rebels like Trump and Farage who pretend they understand the "ordinary folk" but in reality just feed their fears to further their own agendas.

Nail on the head...in a nutshell...like!

[Trickytreesreds]

I do despair when you get all excited over conspiracy theories - yes there are politicians and other powerful figures within the Eu who favour closer integration, yes the \euro became apolitical rather than an economic project and yes there is a lack of border controls within the EU (which are being rexamined in the light of recent events), but the Uk had remained in the EU and not participated in those, so your conjecture that at some stage in the future, the Uk would accept all these and become part of the european superstate its possible, but no Uk government has ever seemed likely to go down that road and whilst in the Eu we had a unique veto.

Yes we have cast doubt on the remain campaign's liberal interpretation of the facts and almost panic stricken doom mongering - as for institutions like the IMF, well economic forecasts are just that and need to be taken with some cynicism, though of course it may well take a decade or so to truly establish whether leaving the EU was good or bad for the country.

37% of the population is not the silent majority is it? And as I pointed out, people in ares which have had no mass immigration were stating that as the reason they voted leave, so clearly they werent talking from personal experience.

As the research indicated, there was a strong correlation between those who harked backed to the "good old days" who were in favour of the death penalty and socially conservative and those who voted leave, irrespective of social class or wealth.

If there was one thing that is true, its that the world changes and leaving the Eu is not going to stop that, so a hell of a lot of people who voted for Brexit are going to be very disappointed when things dont change they way they expect.

If in the next decade, inward investment reduces and firms relocate to the EU, taking those jobs with them, then people at the sharp end are going to be worse off, many of them will have voted for Brexit when maybe they should have voted for government with socially cohesive policies?

Sorry Swale, pulling you up on that one.
The most shocking Brexit opinions came from the midlands across the country.
Also, many of these areas were staunch Labour strongholds as well.
London apart, which is nothing more than a migration mish mash now anyway. The working man on low incomes made their feelings known.
The EU and its policies has and still is hurting the man at the bottom end of the ladder.
It didn't surprise me.
Cameron gambled with a promise to get re elected. It was his way to head off UKIP defection.
It blew up in his face and Juncker and his mates, squarely blame him for this.
They never believed we should have been allowed a vote in the first place.

Whatever, I'm going to press on with it. We're still floating and enough squealing of discontent is coming out from Europe to tell me that the fun is only just beginning over there.

Vive la revolution

[ramAnag]

Not disagreeing at all about Cameron or the 'staunch Labour strongholds' comment, Tricky. My point, and I think Swale's too, is that the referendum outcome is not going to benefit the 'working man on a low income' or 'the man at the bottom end of the ladder' at all.
It's all very well talking about EU corruption, never denied it, but is it any better in the UK? Cameron's recent 'cronyism', amongst other things, would suggest not.

[swaledale]

Sorry Swale, pulling you up on that one.
The most shocking Brexit opinions came from the midlands across the country.
Also, many of these areas were staunch Labour strongholds as well.
London apart, which is nothing more than a migration mish mash now anyway. The working man on low incomes made their feelings known.
The EU and its policies has and still is hurting the man at the bottom end of the ladder.
It didn't surprise me.
Cameron gambled with a promise to get re elected. It was his way to head off UKIP defection.
It blew up in his face and Juncker and his mates, squarely blame him for this.
They never believed we should have been allowed a vote in the first place.

Whatever, I'm going to press on with it. We're still floating and enough squealing of discontent is coming out from Europe to tell me that the fun is only just beginning over there.

Vive la revolution

You believe what you want to Tricky, when people believe what they believe is true, despite what the facts show then theres really no debating with them! You make sweeping generalisations, whilst ignoring the detail.

As for welcoming the revolution, may be you should read some history and be careful what you wish for!

[ramAnag]

Just picked up a 'Metro' at the station and, in the absence of anything decent to read, the headline is 'New Banking Crisis Looms'.
I wouldn't know...any observations from Roger or any other remaining economists?