O/T people on benefits

[Lasterman]

Ok - I take your point.

But as others have pointed out on here, actual benefit cheats account for about 0.7% of the benefits total and therefore even if you stopped EVERY cheat you would only make a relatively small amount back into the public purse. Certainly nothing like the amount we could rake into the purse by clawing back tax evaders.

So taking in yours and Lasterman's (quite good actually) comparison of Dave (benefits cheat) and Chris (good earning, tax contributing and also tax avoiding) - we are left with a question: where would we like to go from here?

We could:

1. Ignore tax avoiders and nail benefit cheats. That would bring in a very small amount into the purse but certainly not enough to make any impact on what is required after years of austerity cuts

2. Nail tax avoiders AND nail benefit cheats. This would obviously raise a more substantial amount for the purse as even Lasterman by his own maths figures that one relatively moderate avoider in Chris is avoiding £250k of tax - a quarter of a million pounds from ONE moderately well off man. And bear in mind he is only being asked to pay a small amount more than you and I pay. We have no option of avoiding paying our due taxes, why are we so happy to let Chris off? Why are you so vehement that people like Dave are cheating you but Chris choosing to opt to pay less tax than you and me doesn't bother you?

Obviously 2) is the ONLY way that we can raise any useful revenue without further taxation being involved. 1) is obviously what the right wing press want us to think in that it keeps our focus away from the widespread and enormous avoidance practiced by the super rich (like their owners!).

But, let's say that we go for 1) and raise a small amount for the purse but leave 2) as it is saying "well done lads, you're paying in enough so we'll turn a blind eye to the avoidance.

If we choose 1) - how are we going to raise the extra revenues needed? Any ideas lads and lasses?

All I can think of is tax rises, and obviously these should not hit the more well off any more than the rest of us so how about we ALL pay a flat rate of 40%? Is that fair enough?

Or would you rather leave the higher bands as is and just add an extra 2% on everybody? Or 3% Or 5%

Tough decisions? Which ACTUAL direction would you like us to go from here Crash, Lasterman et al??

If you're looking at this from a moral perspective, both Chris and Dave are not behaving well. My point is that people who say 'those at the top are the real villians' often overlook the fact that those people are often already contributing massively, as compared to those at the bottom who are contributing nothing. Had Chris sat on his backside like Dave, he'd also be contributing nothing, and in some eyes, be less of a villain for it. That doesn't make sense to me.

Someone made a point that anyone making a lot of money probably did it exploiting other people. My view is that's quite difficult to do when people are free to sell their labour for what it's worth, just about anywhere, but I'm sure we could argue about that all day.

So what do you do about this tax thing? Well I think you have to be a bit pragmatic, and the truth in 2017 is that people like Chris have the freedom to live and work anywhere they choose. That's what modern communications have allowed. So it might be better to get 20% of a million than 50% of nothing. I realise the temptation is to say 'well let them p*ss off then', but when they do, they take etheir money and their jobs with them. Nobody benefits from that - apart from Chris.

[ragingpup]

If you're looking at this from a moral perspective, both Chris and Dave are not behaving well. My point is that people who say 'those at the top are the real villians' often overlook the fact that those people are often already contributing massively, as compared to those at the bottom who are contributing nothing. Had Chris sat on his backside like Dave, he'd also be contributing nothing, and in some eyes, be less of a villain for it. That doesn't make sense to me.

Someone made a point that anyone making a lot of money probably did it exploiting other people. My view is that's quite difficult to do when people are free to sell their labour for what it's worth, just about anywhere, but I'm sure we could argue about that all day.

So what do you do about this tax thing? Well I think you have to be a bit pragmatic, and the truth in 2017 is that people like Chris have the freedom to live and work anywhere they choose. That's what modern communications have allowed. So it might be better to get 20% of a million than 50% of nothing. I realise the temptation is to say 'well let them p*ss off then', but when they do, they take etheir money and their jobs with them. Nobody benefits from that - apart from Chris.

So you think we should allow things to stay as they are? Effectively the wealthy and even the super wealthy effectively paying the same rate of tax, if not less, than the rest of us?

Fair enough - so that keeps the sustained existing pressure on public services and a big question for us who use the public services. Hence surely we will have to change the rates of tax if we are to improve services (appropriate for this week). Are you happy to pay more personally as you and I will surely have to do, whilst Chris and much wealthier even than he, continue to pay less than us?

[rolymiller]

Commendable. Would you like the idle rich to pay more on these things than they do crash? They don't need or deserve all that money do they eh?

[Silly-miller]

If only we could choose who to pay tax’s too eh

Police 15%
NHS 45%
Benefits 10%
Fire 10%
Armed forces 20%
Pensioners 0% they seem to moan a lot about benefits lol

[crashbang]

Silly by name .

[rolymiller]

Here'a one for me old muckers crash and lasterman. read and enjoy. (I know Im NOT ya mucker crash).
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...n-9520562.html

Don't let reality get in the way of bollax eh guys?

Another point Lasterman not many millionaires have made their money without exploiting workers by paying them crap wages and giving them poor working conditions. The word you are looking for to desctibe this process is "greed",

[animallittle3]

An interesting article in ' The New Statesman ' on how tax breaks for the wealthy and the policy of austerity are flawed and have harmed the country for years to come .

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...t-country-dear

[Silly-miller]

I think he clearly took offence to something

[MillyVanilly]

I'm really getting p I ssed off now watching some
Of the programs on tele .
A lot of the scroungers are taking the piss

If you are aware of anyone ripping off the system then by letting it happen you are aiding it's abuse.
JSA is claimed by those looking for work and are subject to prove this, why don't you offer your extended family work at your place? If they refuse without a good enough reason, they will get sanctioned and have their money withdrawn.
ESA is claimed by those deemed unfit for work but they to will have to attend assessments given by the DWP via a private contractor, there have been occasions when theses assessors falsify the test to improve their figures. The DWP primarily will take their word over a qualified GP.
ESA claimants can also be placed in Work Groups to help them find Work if they do not attend they will be sanctioned, regardless whether that sanction will make their condition even worse and has led to people dying. I gather to you this is fair as it will save the DWP £75 pw.
All benefits have been capped since 2010 and most cash will be spent by claimants within days of payment in Shops so many will be paying 25% VA. The 75 % will go back almost certainly into local business.(Including the person who supplies you).
The majority of benefits are paid to those in work including Carers, do you want theirs cut? Their wages haven't been properly increased since 2010. NMW is the responsibility of the Government who are also responsible for the budget given to Councils to fund it.
I guess you also judge anyone with a Disabled Sticker too see if they are lame enough to need it?
So two things for you to do tomorrow. Shop the cheats. And put yourself forward as someone with the ability to diagnose an ESA claimants illness by looking at them(Not to far off the Work Assessment Test does now). The NHS would save a packet working with yourself.
The money saved could allow the Government to halt cuts and put them into Free or discounted Adult Education services that will enable DukesBar members to improve their education and their chances of employment in higher paid jobs therefore increasing the tax revenue collected.
What are you waiting for you can become ''Rotherhams Saviour'' a Knighthood's on the cards.

[wrinkly]

At least the ability to spell simple words such as the Country we live in should be a requirement of a Mod. You'd get denied Immigration if you sat it's test.
A mod needs to have an ability to read and write to ensure they know what's being posted.
No wonder this place is full of fakes and Muppets. Like youself.

"youself"? Ok we'll call that a typo. "it's test"? Tut tut