Crowds and McCabes incentive to back Wilder.

[Carpe_diem]

I made the legal position clear. Never commented on what McCabe should do. Which negates much of your post.

Gentlemans agreement? Do me a favour. Two millionaires who don't know each other that well thousands of miles apart just shake hands? And more fool McCabe? If you can't see the obvious anti McCabe sentiment in that, there's no reason for me to believe you have any balance on the subject whatsoever.

My analogy is genuine and totally relevant to the point. I haven't had to plunder nine****th century history to appear intelligent. Or, in your mardy childish dig " apparently intelligent".

No you didn't. You made the legal position of a completely separate case clear, which in any case was only peripherally linked to the matter at hand.

So the chances are that there's a contract in place? Well then McCabe should sue for breach of contract. And if he doesn't? Yes, more fool him. I literally cannot see what you're arguing against here.

Finally, it wasn't actually a 'mardy childish dig'. I meant it in the sense that your eloquence generally suggests that you are intelligent, particularly by internet forum standards. But this intelligence isn't going to make me bow and scrape in deference to you, or roll over and accept that what you've said is the final word on the subject just because you're not an idiot who finds it amusing to type using Northern vernacular like some low-rent and more southerly Irvine Welsh knock-off.

[rodcurrie]

Unfortunately, it's the past that shapes the future so it is of relevance particularly when based on experience and actions that have shaped the future.

He 's a big boy and is entitled to an opinion as is everyone else I agree

The fact that he cannot back it up with any sort of logic, reasoned argument or tailored ( to the question) response are summed up well by your word 'pathetic'.

The fact that he's now behaving like a child looking through the railings at the others playing should point out his pathetic need to be noticed.

The last line of this post is hilarious,if anyone needs to be noticed it most certainly aint me TT.It seems thaz still got thi mardy head on so as it's nearly Xmas i'm gunna leave it at that,except to wish you and yours and indeed everyone on BLADESmad a VERY HAPPY XMAS.UTCB

[FatherKnowsBest]

... But that's what due diligence is for.

Fail to see how you can trust him to do the due dilligence if you don't trust him to own the club.

Let's be under no illusions, either: if he struggles to sell the club, those struggles are of his own making, not ours. He's the one who has to make the sale attractive. There's nothing we as fans can do about that, other than showing the potential.

Its as much for the prosective buyer to make the deal as it is for the seller. I would happily sell my business if someone walked off the street and offered me the right price, about 50% more than its worth. The onus wouldn't be for me to drop my trousers unless I was desperate to get rid. McCabe seems to think the same.

I do know that while we continue to limp along, trying to do things on the cheap, ignoring the potential and being unwilling to compete, we're going to achieve the square root of sod-all, and all the good work he's done helping to build the fan base through affordable ticketing will be for naught as the fan of tomorrow will be going to the likes of Barnsley to see big name players.

The last three managers have all been well backed including CW, who didn't spend all the money given to him in the summer. I can't accept that we don't want to compete, unless your definition of competing is spending money we don't have.

Think about this: Leeds have had some pretty torrid times, but they've had some amazing highs as well, and they're currently just one point behind us in the league. Would you exchange the years of boring stability and our slow descent into utter mediocrity for what they've had, given that - in the long run - it's led to pretty much exactly the same place? That's a genuine question, by the way, and I'm not sure of my own answer there. It's something to consider, though. We might, as a club, be so scared of failing that we never actually try to succeed, and so seal our own fate.

Leeds United in the last 20 years have been a basket case. They've had an extended stay in L1. Done nowt in winning things, not sure what their 'amazing highs' were. As you say, they have had incredible turmoil, chopping and changing and managers and owners coming and going each one more corrupt that the last. What has been so great about Leeds United that we should aspire to?

[Carpe_diem]

Fail to see how you can trust him to do the due dilligence if you don't trust him to own the club.

I concede that. It's a fair point. He's supposedly a businessman though.

Its as much for the prosective buyer to make the deal as it is for the seller. I would happily sell my business if someone walked off the street and offered me the right price, about 50% more than its worth. The onus wouldn't be for me to drop my trousers unless I was desperate to get rid. McCabe seems to think the same.

This is so much horse manure it's almost laughable. No one is asking McCabe to drop his trousers. Rather in order to realistically sell the club he has to a: ask for a reasonable price, recognising that he's not going to get his money back (in part due to his own mismanagement), and b: agree to leave the club, not expect someone else to pony up the cash while he basks in the reflected glory of being a football chairman. Also if your business is run as badly as SUFC then I worry for your future.[/quote]

The last three managers have all been well backed including CW, who didn't spend all the money given to him in the summer. I can't accept that we don't want to compete, unless your definition of competing is spending money we don't have.

It's about speculating to accumulate, isn't it? A bit of money wisely spent now could pay dividends if we get to the Prem, even if we come straight back down again. He might even get some of his wonga back. I'm not advocating we do a Wednesday and spend ridiculous amounts on has-beens, but the fact of the matter remains that Tufty is performing miracles and he can't keep pulling rabbits out of hats.

Leeds United in the last 20 years have been a basket case. They've had an extended stay in L1. Done nowt in winning things, not sure what their 'amazing highs' were. As you say, they have had incredible turmoil, chopping and changing and managers and owners coming and going each one more corrupt that the last. What has been so great about Leeds United that we should aspire to?

We've had an extended stay in L1. We've done nowt in winning things, bar coming 2nd in the Championship and 1st in League One. They've spent seven years in the Premier league, finishing as high as third, and got to the semi-final of the Champions League. As I said, I genuinely don't know if I'd trade what we've had for what they've had, but they've got a hell of a lot more memories to show for it.

[FatherKnowsBest]

This is so much horse manure it's almost laughable. No one is asking McCabe to drop his trousers. Rather in order to realistically sell the club he has to a: ask for a reasonable price, recognising that he's not going to get his money back (in part due to his own mismanagement), and b: agree to leave the club, not expect someone else to pony up the cash while he basks in the reflected glory of being a football chairman. Also if your business is run as badly as SUFC then I worry for your future.

Maybe Kev McCabe doesn't want to sell, and even if you think he should, no amount of wishing is going to change his mind. Do you really think he has 'reflected glory' of being the chairman of such a badly run club. It can't be both ways round, surely..?

My business is run just fine by an experienced and competent MD (thats me..!) Strangely enough I've had lots of people tell me over the years that I am stubborn and should take on more risk. But here I am, stubbornly paying my bills and growing nicely as my competitors go bust. Perhaps my personal experience makes it easier for me to relate to the Chairman

We've had an extended stay in L1. We've done nowt in winning things, bar coming 2nd in the Championship and 1st in League One. They've spent seven years in the Premier league, finishing as high as third, and got to the semi-final of the Champions League. As I said, I genuinely don't know if I'd trade what we've had for what they've had, but they've got a hell of a lot more memories to show for it.

Leeds hasn't been in the PL since 2003. Even we've been there more recently. In the last 10 years, they've had one runner-up promotion and two top half finishes in the Championship. Not exactly 'glory, glory'.

[Carpe_diem]

You said the last 20 years, now you're moving the goalposts.

[Carpe_diem]

Additionally, The People's Republic of North Korea is, by any definition, a badly run country but it doesn't stop their leader from basking in the glory of running it.

[rodcurrie]

Maybe Kev McCabe doesn't want to sell, and even if you think he should, no amount of wishing is going to change his mind. Do you really think he has 'reflected glory' of being the chairman of such a badly run club. It can't be both ways round, surely..?

My business is run just fine by an experienced and competent MD (thats me..!) Strangely enough I've had lots of people tell me over the years that I am stubborn and should take on more risk. But here I am, stubbornly paying my bills and growing nicely as my competitors go bust. Perhaps my personal experience makes it easier for me to relate to the Chairman



Leeds hasn't been in the PL since 2003. Even we've been there more recently. In the last 10 years, they've had one runner-up promotion and two top half finishes in the Championship. Not exactly 'glory, glory'.

It'll be along neet for ya Pops,looks like owd Carpe got his arguin head on again. UTCB

[FatherKnowsBest]

You said the last 20 years, now you're moving the goalposts.

Merely highlighting the more recent time under foreign ownership.

Yes, so 18 years ago they had a great finish in the PL and a European Semifinal, but its been pretty much all downhill since then. We might as well talk about the oinkers great cup victory and successful European campaign in 1992/93 (or was it 1994?). Anyway I don't see much difference from our record than theirs. Historically maybe but not in this generation.

[Carpe_diem]

I'm old enough to remember it. I'm sure you are too, and many other people. Interesting that you're stuck arguing about a genuine question I asked.

For Rod's benefit - as I get the feeling he's feeling left out - I'm merely stating my side of the debate. Sadly it would seem that neither Holden nor FKB have any stronger arguments than you do despite their right pretty speech.