O/T The Price Of Coal 1977 BBC Drama

[millmoormagic]

My dad was a miner..he worked for 49 years and 9 months in the pit as a tailgate ripper all bar the last few years on a button..he finished aged 63..he never left a pit but was transferred on several occasions...roughwood, roundwood, skiers, barley hall, bradgate..i can tell you he didnt get a good pension, didnt get a good pay off, ( unless you think 1500 and odd quid was ), and from what i understand, he didnt need to be questioned on the subject of graft, working for such along time in the rip...i once went down a pit on a school visit, but we didnt have to crawl in 18 inch spaces like my dad..people like you wouldnt last two minutes..

Indeed, Tailgate rippers were of the legendary types, even among fellow miners, i doff my cap sir...

[animallittle3]

I don't think anyone wanted their children to follow then down.

In the later days it was different though, a lot safer and better paid.

It was a living wage fire , as a faceworker you could earn enough to have a modest car and mortgage , two weeks holiday , pay your bills and feed your family .

Given the nature of the work and dangers we accepted that it was the reason we earned what we did in comparison to factory work at that time .

Even though personally the work wasn't great you still fought to keep the relative lifestyle you enjoyed .

This wasn't a career it was a job , a job that paid above other forms of work in this area .

You have to factor in the times of 1984 / 85 , no minimum wage and jobs were hard to come by , if you lost your job back then you could be unemployed for 12 to 18 months easily .

Yet again going back to the times of the day , the safety only improved because of the lessons learned when people were killed down there , risk assessments didn't exist .

Don't let anyone tell you different , we had to graft , we had targets to hit and the management were on your backs if you didn't hit them , there was no fecking about , just because the NUM was a strong union didn't mean you could take the pyss down there .

[CTMilller]

A few comments:

Having sat on the management side of industrial relations issues for a large part of my life , I have to say I did not have much time, in the past, for miners' demands for ever increasing wages and improved conditions. I felt the NUM was holding the country to ransom to the point where they were the architects of their own downfall and as much, if not more, at fault for the failure of the mining industry to survive. I was not sympathetic to their cause in 1984/5.

In the last few years, especially after retirement, I've gradually revised my position:

I've become increasingly aware that, while there was some logic in the Tory party's position that 'something' had to change in the way that the economics of mining were working, there was most definitely a vindictiveness and a lack of desire to understand the position of the NUM and the people they represented. It was union-bashing organised to 'play to the gallery' of right of centre sentiment and it completely missed the point that a constructive outcome could be a possible option. I've become increasingly uncomfortable with this - especially as I've viewed, and reviewed, some of the film footage of what happened in the confrontations with the police

A couple of years ago on a visit to UK I went to the National Coal Mining Museum in Wakefield and made the trip down to the old workings. While this has obviously had to be sanitized to make it an easier environment for public visits, it was still an eye-opener. Anybody who has any doubts about how tough it is to work underground for years on end should visit this place. Just the ride down the mine shaft is not for the faint of heart. I can understand why the NUM worked so hard to raise pay levels. I don't necessarily agree with an excessively militant approach to industrial relations but I can at least understand why the NUM was so well supported.

We all talk about relatives who worked in mining. My father after the war was looking for work. He was a pretty tough character who had stayed on in Germany after 1945 to help with the denazification program and was trained to do a lot of unpleasant things. When he came back he had a go as a coal miner and was set on at Thurcroft. He lasted two days. His description of the life of a miner matches much of what has been said on this thread.

Finally, and I've said this before, the OT threads on this board have been useful for me to get a proper understanding of what the life of a miner was actually like and how they fared in the strike. To get to know ex-miners is a rare opportunity to understand how things actually were and this too has helped shape my reformed opinion.

I shall watch the film, in due course, and will continue to keep an open mind.

[millmoormagic]

A few comments:

Having sat on the management side of industrial relations issues for a large part of my life , I have to say I did not have much time, in the past, for miners' demands for ever increasing wages and improved conditions. I felt the NUM was holding the country to ransom to the point where they were the architects of their own downfall and as much, if not more, at fault for the failure of the mining industry to survive. I was not sympathetic to their cause in 1984/5.

In the last few years, especially after retirement, I've gradually revised my position:

I've become increasingly aware that, while there was some logic in the Tory party's position that 'something' had to change in the way that the economics of mining were working, there was most definitely a vindictiveness and a lack of desire to understand the position of the NUM and the people they represented. It was union-bashing organised to 'play to the gallery' of right of centre sentiment and it completely missed the point that a constructive outcome could be a possible option. I've become increasingly uncomfortable with this - especially as I've viewed, and reviewed, some of the film footage of what happened in the confrontations with the police

A couple of years ago on a visit to UK I went to the National Coal Mining Museum in Wakefield and made the trip down to the old workings. While this has obviously had to be sanitized to make it an easier environment for public visits, it was still an eye-opener. Anybody who has any doubts about how tough it is to work underground for years on end should visit this place. Just the ride down the mine shaft is not for the faint of heart. I can understand why the NUM worked so hard to raise pay levels. I don't necessarily agree with an excessively militant approach to industrial relations but I can at least understand why the NUM was so well supported.

We all talk about relatives who worked in mining. My father after the war was looking for work. He was a pretty tough character who had stayed on in Germany after 1945 to help with the denazification program and was trained to do a lot of unpleasant things. When he came back he had a go as a coal miner and was set on at Thurcroft. He lasted two days. His description of the life of a miner matches much of what has been said on this thread.

Finally, and I've said this before, the OT threads on this board have been useful for me to get a proper understanding of what the life of a miner was actually like and how they fared in the strike. To get to know ex-miners is a rare opportunity to understand how things actually were and this too has helped shape my reformed opinion.

I shall watch the film, in due course, and will continue to keep an open mind.

I understand some of that CT, i really do, but these things have to be taken in context, the miner's union was borne out of men, women and kids being exploited, the miner's union, and working underground was a perfect foil for it, became stronger because of the treatment of said workers, that work, underground, to be as safe as it could ever be, was a close knit, teamwork effort, from ALL concerned, i often hear the word 'teamwork' these days in work and believe me when i tell you, the mines didn't work without it, and i've seen none to match it since.....
Because of that 'teamwork' a bond was created between miners, a bond that i don't think anyone who hasn't worked underground could possibly understand, but that bond also created solidarity, if the managers facked about with one miner, they were facking about with them all......BRILLIANT. They couldn't get away with scamming folk out of cash, or petty misdemeanor discipline, simple as that. And yes, that power was used to get better conditions, better terms of employment, better safety underground, and the country benefitted as a whole, big style, most other manual occupations benefitted from the miner's power, did that power sometimes go too far?? maybe, maybe it did, what i do know though, is that the miners in 1984/5 were disgracefully abandoned by the union movement and the labour party, kicked in the ballacks by our own, another story in itself.

Do me a favour and try to watch the film 'Still the enemy within' directed by Owen Gower, it will go some way towards making you understand what really happened, a Silverwood striker features prominently throughout....

[millmoormagic]

https://the-enemy-within.org.uk/the-film-3/

Link to the synopsis of said film...

One last thing, i went to watch this last night with a few friends at the new Rotherham Underground cinema ( the old turf tavern) it fetched some good and bad memories back, i'd encourage folk to take a look at the said Rotherham Underground, decent little 'arty' set up...http://www.rotherhamunderground.com/about-us.html

[monty_rhodes]

My goodness, CT, you're dragging this board down sir. We can't have people posting who take a considered view, who can see merit and fault on both sides, who revise their views on the basis of evidence and experience. No, sir, it will not do.
I never worked as a miner, nor did any of my family going back to when they arrived here from Ireland. But whatever the arguments about the industry and the strike it seems to me that a great social injustice was done. That the miners' leaders may have to some extent "brought this on themselves" is irrelevant to the failure of government to behave in a fair and compassionate way. You do not have to be a socialist to see that much of what the Tories did under Thatcher (and are still doing) was motivated by spite, by class hatred (or contempt) by a disregard for the less well-off and by a Little England worldview. Regrettably, in this country that remains a winning formula.

[ragingpup]

My goodness, CT, you're dragging this board down sir. We can't have people posting who take a considered view, who can see merit and fault on both sides, who revise their views on the basis of evidence and experience. No, sir, it will not do.
I never worked as a miner, nor did any of my family going back to when they arrived here from Ireland. But whatever the arguments about the industry and the strike it seems to me that a great social injustice was done. That the miners' leaders may have to some extent "brought this on themselves" is irrelevant to the failure of government to behave in a fair and compassionate way. You do not have to be a socialist to see that much of what the Tories did under Thatcher (and are still doing) was motivated by spite, by class hatred (or contempt) by a disregard for the less well-off and by a Little England worldview. Regrettably, in this country that remains a winning formula.

Are you the same Monty? Dunno if the new avatar is spooking me but I've suddenly started agreeing with all of your views. What's happening?!

Sorry to break this to you - you must be as scared as I!

[Exiletyke]

Are you the same Monty? Dunno if the new avatar is spooking me but I've suddenly started agreeing with all of your views. What's happening?!

Sorry to break this to you - you must be as scared as I!

Like

[monty_rhodes]

Are you the same Monty? Dunno if the new avatar is spooking me but I've suddenly started agreeing with all of your views. What's happening?!

Sorry to break this to you - you must be as scared as I!

Morning raging. I have many times pointed out that my political views are left of centre and that I hold very liberal views on ***ual matters and a broad range of social policies. I remain opposed to immigration particularly from the sub-continent - the arguments about EU freedom of movement are a red herring imo. EU immigrants on average boost UK GDP by around £2000 per capita whilst immigration of "family members" from the sub-continent has a net cost of around £850 per capita, runs at many tens of thousands and is potentially socially destructive as research shows the majority of these are poorly educated, economically inactive, rarely speak English, hold very conservative views on social issues and tend to disappear into their communities. I am also at present doing my best to stop parliament liberalising the Gender Recognition Act - Rachel McKinnon rules and soon English women's football will be dominated by self-identifyin "women" in mens' bodies. Watch this space.

[Exiletyke]

Morning raging. I have many times pointed out that my political views are left of centre and that I hold very liberal views on ***ual matters and a broad range of social policies. I remain opposed to immigration particularly from the sub-continent - the arguments about EU freedom of movement are a red herring imo. EU immigrants on average boost UK GDP by around £2000 per capita whilst immigration of "family members" from the sub-continent has a net cost of around £850 per capita, runs at many tens of thousands and is potentially socially destructive as research shows the majority of these are poorly educated, economically inactive, rarely speak English, hold very conservative views on social issues and tend to disappear into their communities. I am also at present doing my best to stop parliament liberalising the Gender Recognition Act - Rachel McKinnon rules and soon English women's football will be dominated by self-identifyin "women" in mens' bodies. Watch this space.

Also Like