Well theres a name i havent seen for ages !! Nodge.

[ex_pat_magpie]

I can think perfectly well for myself.
What I won't do is agree with people for the sake of it if I don't follow that line of thought. Accept that because it will never change.

All that is, is an acceptance that you think you can never learn from anything new.

You must have been one of the original "flat earthers"

[Geordie1974]

I won't as long as they don't state something as a fact and then won't back it up.
I don't state facts unless I can back them up.
I can state my opinions which I back up with reasoning.

There's world of difference.
So, if someone states something as a fact I will ask them how they know it's a fact. If their argument is to call me a troll and all kinds of names whilst telling all and sundry how I spoil the forum, then I can't really accept that as their proof.

So when you say Ashley saved the club it is just an opinion not fact.When you say we are better off financially it is an opinion not fact.
My opinion is someone else would have bought it if he didn't.
What is fact is the debt has nearly doubled under Ashley as the accounts say the debt stands at 144m,if you don't accept that as proof as it's in the accounts,do you think Ashley has cooked the books then.

[ex_pat_magpie]

So when you say Ashley saved the club it is just an opinion not fact.When you say we are better off financially it is an opinion not fact.
My opinion is someone else would have bought it if he didn't.
What is fact is the debt has nearly doubled under Ashley as the accounts say the debt stands at 144m,if you don't accept that as proof as it's in the accounts,do you think Ashley has cooked the books then.

And considering that most of the original debt under Sir John was for the stadium.

I would imagine there would be no debt at all if what Assley has spirited away was used to reduce the debt.

No one seems to be able to account for all of these millions from outgoing transfers going back to the Liverpool money from Carroll,

It's not made available to the manager to replace outgoing players with any sort of quality. Just bargain basement stuff window after window.

[Zippity]

If Ashley had paid the club what he should have for advertising over the last 10 seasons then I reckon the debt would be as good as paid off.

And the 'but he could have charged us interest' argument doesn't work because he owned the club so he was effectively lending himself money whereas Shite Direct and NUFC are two separate entities.

[Kal]

You must have been one of the original "flat earthers"

He is, as it happens (or a version of it)

[toptoon]

Just opinions, take them as such and you won't get yourself wound up.

I don't understand. Is it 'just opinions' or 'having facts to back up your opinions'? Seems like it's the former for you and the latter for everyone else.

By the way, it's a message board and not an instruction manual and is, therefore, all about opinions.

[ghostrider]

I don't understand. Is it 'just opinions' or 'having facts to back up your opinions'? Seems like it's the former for you and the latter for everyone else.

It may seem like whatever you want it to seem.
If I have an opinion and the facts to back it up then it's what it is. An opinion backed by facts.
The very same as you can have.

However, if facts are not available and opinion of a certain topic is based on mere speculation by both parties, then the whole premise of the debate becomes an issue for both sides to try to get closer to the potential facts.
If no ground is given by either party because no facts are forthcoming, then the debate goes on and can create great arguing points by boths sides but it can also create many other things depending on the emotion of the topic.
Such as straw man arguments or simple abuse. It just depends.

By the way, it's a message board and not an instruction manual and is, therefore, all about opinions.

Correct, it is a messageboard and it's a messageboard from our opinions, whether factual or speculative.
If you tell me that something that I don;t agree with I can ask you for proof which can go two ways.
1. You can provide the proof and basically shut down the debate in an instant and also learn me something factual.

Or

2. You can tell me that it's the word on the street/media, common knowledge...etc but maybe cannot back it up other than to appeal to mass mindset.

If I argue this point and put forward what I believe are genuine opinions and questions, then a debate can go on but, as I mentioned above...it can also descend into a put out forced fact by count of grouped individuals against "A" individual or an extreme minority.

That's the simple reality of life.
It's much easier to follow a narrative. A crowd than to stand out as some kind of minnow with a different opinion.
This is why many people change opinions on stuff because they feel it's easier and safer to just go with the flow.

[Geordie1974]

So why if that's the case ghost,do you agree with everything your mate P/Boro says when time after time it has been proved his facts are in-correct.All the while asking quite a few board members to prove what they say,and not asking him once to prove what he has posted.
This is just an observation and proves that you pick and choose the posts you ask the poster to prove,depending on who the poster themselves is.
All this throws weight behind what people "think",that you 2 are here for one reason only and it's not to have a debate on here.

[ex_pat_magpie]

So why if that's the case ghost,do you agree with everything your mate P/Boro says when time after time it has been proved his facts are in-correct.All the while asking quite a few board members to prove what they say,and not asking him once to prove what he has posted.
This is just an observation and proves that you pick and choose the posts you ask the poster to prove,depending on who the poster themselves is.
All this throws weight behind what people "think",that you 2 are here for one reason only and it's not to have a debate on here.

Ghost's strategy when he is stuck and can't answer or justify a statement is to return with another question rather than an answer.


The sure sign that he has lost his argument.

[ghostrider]

So why if that's the case ghost,do you agree with everything your mate P/Boro says when time after time it has been proved his facts are in-correct.

I don't agree with everything he says. But I like him as a poster.

All the while asking quite a few board members to prove what they say,and not asking him once to prove what he has posted.

I don't ask them to prove what they say. I simply ask if there's any official facts relating to a story that is given out.
Generally nothing official seems to come to the fore so basically the speculation by debate goes on., on both sides.

This is just an observation and proves that you pick and choose the posts you ask the poster to prove,depending on who the poster themselves is.

We all pick and choose posts we want to debate in. We all cherry pick what interests us or what can build a thread. That's what forums are about, surely.

All this throws weight behind what people "think",that you 2 are here for one reason only and it's not to have a debate on here.

I don't care what people think I'm here for, so you decide anything you feel suits you.