O/T:- Defund the bbc.

[drillerpie]

I have followed this thread with great interest, and came across a quote which I believe is relevant.
“Ad hominem fallacies.” Socrates. “When citizens assess arguments on merit rather than through the prism of ideology, democracy flourishes.”

Like.

[sidders]

Elite has raised some good points which have barely been acknowledged. The way I see it our culture has a permanent right-wing bias. It supports the status quo because it is safe and familiar and who knows what might happen if we bring about radical change.
For example, we could do so much more to democratise and make more accountable the monarchy, but the abiding fear is that get rid of the crown and dangerous alternatives would be inevitable. We have (fortunately) a capable and wise queen but behind her is a mouth full of bad teeth who are in desperate need of dental surgery.
We are a class ridden society and the ruling class determine the structure in such a way that they retain power and wealth. The rest of us are allowed a bit more oxygen to keep us 'happy' and the BBC as it exists today is a part of that oxygen.
Don't forget that 7% of the people own 84% of its wealth and I can assure you that everyone on this board is in the 93% who own just 16% of the wealth (or you might prefer Arron Banks figure that 1% own 50%).

[EwarWooWar]

Elite has raised some good points which have barely been acknowledged. The way I see it our culture has a permanent right-wing bias. It supports the status quo because it is safe and familiar and who knows what might happen if we bring about radical change.
For example, we could do so much more to democratise and make more accountable the monarchy, but the abiding fear is that get rid of the crown and dangerous alternatives would be inevitable. We have (fortunately) a capable and wise queen but behind her is a mouth full of bad teeth who are in desperate need of dental surgery.
We are a class ridden society and the ruling class determine the structure in such a way that they retain power and wealth. The rest of us are allowed a bit more oxygen to keep us 'happy' and the BBC as it exists today is a part of that oxygen.
Don't forget that 7% of the people own 84% of its wealth and I can assure you that everyone on this board is in the 93% who own just 16% of the wealth (or you might prefer Arron Banks figure that 1% own 50%).

Sid, the reason you think the culture has a right wing bias is that you are a left wing idiot. Can you please advise what you mean by right wing because as a centre lefty myself I am always being called a far right bigot by by commie daughter just because I don't agree with her revolutionary goals. It seems to me that when you are on the far left of the political spectrum even us centrist seem to be extreme.

An analogy I used to explain it to a group of friends a while back. Is Loughborough in the North of the South? My friend from the Es*** stated it is in the North, while the one from Sunderland said it was in the South. Neither would accept there was even a thing as the Midlands. Same with Politics, when you are far from the Centre the Centre itself does not have the same goals as you, therefore it must be the same as the other extreme.

I see the culture of this country as being very much of the Centre and the centre fully believes in evolution rather than revolution. I'm not talking about Darwin and the like but how throughout the last 150 years life has become better for everyone overall. Things that were acceptable just 30 years ago are no longer. We as a people believe in a live and let live philosophy, we have enshrined in law that discrimination is not acceptable and the vast majority agree with that.

We are not a Class Ridden society, just because you assert it to be true does not make it so. Sure there is a Class structure but it has more to do with wealth than anything else not birth. How do you make the Queen more democratic? You do realise she is purely a symbolic figure, she has no power at all. She cannot disolve parliament without being aske to by the PM, she cannot veto any proposed law, she cannot even determin who will get the throne after her, that is determined by parliament. We would do better by democratising parliament itself by changing the voting system as most people are not voting for the party they really agree with, they are voting for the party that has the best chance to beat the party they disagree with.

As for the BBC, it needs immediate attention, I stopped paying the license years ago. I don't watch any TV so don't need one, I just use streaming services these days. The BBC and the press are the problem, they want the power themselves. When you actually look into it the BBC has more power than the government. Sure the government has the power to propose laws but the press and in particular, the BBC can frame it to the people of the country to suit their agenda. Its all about how the news is framed these days, a while back there was a riot after a Trump rally in the US; it was framed as Violence Breaks out at Trump Rally. All true, but the real violence was caused by left wing troublemakers attacking people attending a rally that the troublemakers did not agree with.

The modern media is mostly fake news from all sides just pushing their agenda. You don't have to lie flat out about something but that does happen. There are multiple types of fake news from the out and out made up garbage, through the various types of framing to the not reporting on important things that go against your agenda. Also, there was a report a few years back about where people get their news from, those on the left will only view left wing media, those in the centre will get about a 70/30 split while those on the right will have a 40/60 split. Those on the left really have no idea what is really happening because they only view news that denounces anyone that disagrees with them as evil.

So we come to what is happening in the world at the moment, the press is pushing its agenda that BLM is a peaceful protest where 30 police offices somehow managed to all have accidents and end up in hospital, where vandalism was rife, but then try to draw up a list of other properties that are deserving of attention.

The problem with the BBC is not that it favours the Conservatives nor that it favours Labour, it doesn't favour either of them. It is a political actor with its own agenda and it will favour whoever agrees with a certain point but not with the person overall as that would reduce its power. You see people pointing that is did not support Corbin, well that was simple, he supported Brexit and the BBC didn't. The BBC has a political ideology and that is Intersectional Identitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality, to most of us it is just another form of racism, ***ism and any other type of ism that has caused death and violence throughout history, but they now see the way a redressing past grievences is to introduce new modern ones.

BLM is just another extremist group that is trying to push its agenda, I really don't think it will succeed though, it's too soon, too many people are in positions where they have a voice to speak against it. But it will succeed in some areas though, more and more people are being purged from social media for questioning their dogma so the next time this comes along with the next group to try there will be fewer to speak up.

The thing is, Sid and his cohorts have been pushing for this, on other posts they are decrying that this is not what they wanted. It might not be, but it is what you asked for. These people share probably 95% of what you believe in but the small difference is the difference a fair society that you claim to want and a tyranical one. These people will accept no divergence from their goals, will accept no counter voice because they know if they do, they will be next against the wall.

You see it on an almost daily basis these days, someone states an opinion that is agreeable to the vast majority of the people in this country and the hate mob descends to get them banned, the most recent one being JK Rowling for calling out the phrase "people who menstruate". In all of these cases the mob descends and the press write story after story calling out the wrongthink of the perpetrator, the reason is twofold. First virtue signal to the mob that you are on their side, the other is to tell those that disagree to keep your mouth shut, if you are thinking of agreeing with the wrongthinker then you will be next.

Well Sid, you have gotten what you asked for, but as a democratic socialist I think you should remember what happened to the Mensheviks after the Bolsheviks took over, start choosing your wall.

[TSANHO]

Sid, the reason you think the culture has a right wing bias is that you are a left wing idiot. Can you please advise what you mean by right wing because as a centre lefty myself I am always being called a far right bigot by by commie daughter just because I don't agree with her revolutionary goals. It seems to me that when you are on the far left of the political spectrum even us centrist seem to be extreme.

An analogy I used to explain it to a group of friends a while back. Is Loughborough in the North of the South? My friend from the Es*** stated it is in the North, while the one from Sunderland said it was in the South. Neither would accept there was even a thing as the Midlands. Same with Politics, when you are far from the Centre the Centre itself does not have the same goals as you, therefore it must be the same as the other extreme.

I see the culture of this country as being very much of the Centre and the centre fully believes in evolution rather than revolution. I'm not talking about Darwin and the like but how throughout the last 150 years life has become better for everyone overall. Things that were acceptable just 30 years ago are no longer. We as a people believe in a live and let live philosophy, we have enshrined in law that discrimination is not acceptable and the vast majority agree with that.

We are not a Class Ridden society, just because you assert it to be true does not make it so. Sure there is a Class structure but it has more to do with wealth than anything else not birth. How do you make the Queen more democratic? You do realise she is purely a symbolic figure, she has no power at all. She cannot disolve parliament without being aske to by the PM, she cannot veto any proposed law, she cannot even determin who will get the throne after her, that is determined by parliament. We would do better by democratising parliament itself by changing the voting system as most people are not voting for the party they really agree with, they are voting for the party that has the best chance to beat the party they disagree with.

As for the BBC, it needs immediate attention, I stopped paying the license years ago. I don't watch any TV so don't need one, I just use streaming services these days. The BBC and the press are the problem, they want the power themselves. When you actually look into it the BBC has more power than the government. Sure the government has the power to propose laws but the press and in particular, the BBC can frame it to the people of the country to suit their agenda. Its all about how the news is framed these days, a while back there was a riot after a Trump rally in the US; it was framed as Violence Breaks out at Trump Rally. All true, but the real violence was caused by left wing troublemakers attacking people attending a rally that the troublemakers did not agree with.

The modern media is mostly fake news from all sides just pushing their agenda. You don't have to lie flat out about something but that does happen. There are multiple types of fake news from the out and out made up garbage, through the various types of framing to the not reporting on important things that go against your agenda. Also, there was a report a few years back about where people get their news from, those on the left will only view left wing media, those in the centre will get about a 70/30 split while those on the right will have a 40/60 split. Those on the left really have no idea what is really happening because they only view news that denounces anyone that disagrees with them as evil.

So we come to what is happening in the world at the moment, the press is pushing its agenda that BLM is a peaceful protest where 30 police offices somehow managed to all have accidents and end up in hospital, where vandalism was rife, but then try to draw up a list of other properties that are deserving of attention.

The problem with the BBC is not that it favours the Conservatives nor that it favours Labour, it doesn't favour either of them. It is a political actor with its own agenda and it will favour whoever agrees with a certain point but not with the person overall as that would reduce its power. You see people pointing that is did not support Corbin, well that was simple, he supported Brexit and the BBC didn't. The BBC has a political ideology and that is Intersectional Identitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality, to most of us it is just another form of racism, ***ism and any other type of ism that has caused death and violence throughout history, but they now see the way a redressing past grievences is to introduce new modern ones.

BLM is just another extremist group that is trying to push its agenda, I really don't think it will succeed though, it's too soon, too many people are in positions where they have a voice to speak against it. But it will succeed in some areas though, more and more people are being purged from social media for questioning their dogma so the next time this comes along with the next group to try there will be fewer to speak up.

The thing is, Sid and his cohorts have been pushing for this, on other posts they are decrying that this is not what they wanted. It might not be, but it is what you asked for. These people share probably 95% of what you believe in but the small difference is the difference a fair society that you claim to want and a tyranical one. These people will accept no divergence from their goals, will accept no counter voice because they know if they do, they will be next against the wall.

You see it on an almost daily basis these days, someone states an opinion that is agreeable to the vast majority of the people in this country and the hate mob descends to get them banned, the most recent one being JK Rowling for calling out the phrase "people who menstruate". In all of these cases the mob descends and the press write story after story calling out the wrongthink of the perpetrator, the reason is twofold. First virtue signal to the mob that you are on their side, the other is to tell those that disagree to keep your mouth shut, if you are thinking of agreeing with the wrongthinker then you will be next.

Well Sid, you have gotten what you asked for, but as a democratic socialist I think you should remember what happened to the Mensheviks after the Bolsheviks took over, start choosing your wall.

Wow, only just seen this. Good post, but quite clearly the wrong audience!

[Psaw]

Class war as always sidders. If you want money why don't you earn it, its there to be took. As always socialism is the capitalism of the poor.

Or so called poor. God help us under your shower, everyone will be poor, driving Trabants if were lucky, cycling, and eating bread and cheese, if were lucky. You don't get it do you? Spreading this muck.

Do you know where socialism leads.? Its not happy families, its anarchy, poverty, proper poverty, war, starvation, disease, all on a childish idea. Grow up.

[sidders]

Class war as always sidders. If you want money why don't you earn it, its there to be took. As always socialism is the capitalism of the poor.

Or so called poor. God help us under your shower, everyone will be poor, driving Trabants if were lucky, cycling, and eating bread and cheese, if were lucky. You don't get it do you? Spreading this muck.

Do you know where socialism leads.? Its not happy families, its anarchy, poverty, proper poverty, war, starvation, disease, all on a childish idea. Grow up.

Have you any idea how pathetic and unconvincing you sound, conflating democratic socialism with hardline communism?

Once again, here's my recommended signature tune for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

[upthemaggies]

Not a fan of Man Ure but fair play to Marcus Rashford for his efforts to help families going hungry.

"Trust me when I say, I will keep fighting until no child in the UK has to worry about where their next meal is coming from. This is England in 2020 and families need help."

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...e-child-hunger

[magpie_mania]

Class war as always sidders. If you want money why don't you earn it, its there to be took. As always socialism is the capitalism of the poor.

Or so called poor. God help us under your shower, everyone will be poor, driving Trabants if were lucky, cycling, and eating bread and cheese, if were lucky. You don't get it do you? Spreading this muck.

Do you know where socialism leads.? Its not happy families, its anarchy, poverty, proper poverty, war, starvation, disease, all on a childish idea. Grow up.

In 2004 the Trussell Trust ran 2 foodbanks.

By 2012 250, now over 1,200.

Now there are around 2,000 foodbanks across all organisations.I

Not sure you are in any position to be lecturing about people going hungry.

[crazyfists]

Not a fan of Man Ure but fair play to Marcus Rashford for his efforts to help families going hungry.

"Trust me when I say, I will keep fighting until no child in the UK has to worry about where their next meal is coming from. This is England in 2020 and families need help."

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...e-child-hunger

Agreed.

[Psaw]

Following the latest BBC outrage, you can still get this communist organisation on the road to ruin.

Roger.