O/T - general election 2019

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

No, my grandfather worked there. To his dying day he maintained that the picketing cost him his job. Bearing in mind that whilst the picketing was on Hadfields workers were put on basic rate, no chance of any production bonuses.

Working men killing the jobs of other working men, now that is poor.

Not enough demand for Steel could have contributed to your Grandfather losing his job. I also had relatives at Hadfields and BSC.
The orders Hadfields gained when BSC was on strike didn't do too much good, when BSC workers went back to work the lost orders came back with them.Hadfields made almost 2k redundant not too long after that steel strike and finally closed in 1983, two years after the strike.

Divide and conquer.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Not enough demand for Steel could have contributed to your Grandfather losing his job. I also had relatives at Hadfields and BSC.
The orders Hadfields gained when BSC was on strike didn't do too much good, when BSC workers went back to work the lost orders came back with them.Hadfields made almost 2k redundant not too long after that steel strike and finally closed in 1983, two years after the strike.

Divide and conquer.

Ah well, fair enough

[Exiletyke]

Did you know Kerr worked at Hadfields during the strike?

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

Did you know Kerr worked at Hadfields during the strike?

I wouldn't be surprised, that's probably were he got his " Beef " about Unions.
Horrible times the 70's and 80's and most people I know have moved on from that era.

[rolymiller]

Me and mi dad were there on the picket lines at Hadfields. Still got the stickers to prove it.Always remember my dad singing over a high ranking copper when he was trying to lecture our picketing group on how we should behave. The copper wasn't too pleased. Was worried mi dad might get arrested i was only a young lad...Didn't do the mass picket don't think mi dad would let me because he knew the rozzers would get rough...

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Me and mi dad were there on the picket lines at Hadfields. Still got the stickers to prove it.Always remember my dad singing over a high ranking copper when he was trying to lecture our picketing group on how we should behave. The copper wasn't too pleased. Was worried mi dad might get arrested i was only a young lad...Didn't do the mass picket don't think mi dad would let me because he knew the rozzers would get rough...

And you are still banging on about it.....move on mate

[KerrAvon]

Kerr. Ive not got much time and just had a chance to actually read your post.

There is a 4th option, companies actually accept making employees shareholders (shakeholders) has a long term benefits and get on with it.

You asked me the science behind my view on brexit being more damaging than Labour taxation. Id ask you to give science behind your take that companies will automatically leave the UK given higher taxes. What I read from your post is speculation on your part.

You’ve one off on a bit of a tangent there, Wan. What has making employees shareholders got to do with this thread? How is that a 4th option in response to Labour’s policy?

I strongly believe that the best run companies are those that engage with their staff and I am all for employee shareholders. If Labour were to propose that then there would be no argument from me.

There is a world of difference between me setting out an argument as to why Labour’s plans would have companies, and jobs and tax revenues queuing up to leave this country and the bold statement that you made that a no deal Brexit would be worse for the country than a Labour government. They would both be disastrous and I would prefer to have neither.

[KerrAvon]

Kerr said to me "Thatcher’s policies didn’t kill off major industries as you assert."

In short, I think it did. The feature of the early 80s recession is that it hit mananufacturing harder than other sectors. Britain lost 20% of its manufacturing in 18 months.* Add in Thatchers policy of closing down coal and steel. The net result is many of our factories closed forever.

The reason the recession hit manufacture hardest was a triple whammy of the increase in interest rates (to squeeze money supply), a strong rise in the pound (due to North Sea Oil sales) and sharp fall off in domestic demand.

Manufacturers lost its export markets at the same time as being hit by cheap imports. Manufacturing output fell by a third through the recession. Agree it hit many lame ducks but killed off very many good ones too. "By April 1983, Britain, once known globally as the "workshop of the world" became a net importer of goods for the first time in modern times."

The first few years under Thatcher saw unemployment rise to 5m (the headline figure is 3m but adjusted taking into account youth unemployment) hitting the North hardest devastation towns and cities up here. Many are yet to recover.

The landscape of Britain changed. The recovery was in the South. Our reliance shifted from manufacture to the financial service sector in the City. Today, the South and South East are the only regions in Britain that have a nett surplus in tax revenue.

Thatchers introduction of neoliberal policy and her creation of the Single Market changed how we produce things and trade internationally.

The recovery in manufacturing post the Thatcher recession is built off the back of outsourcing globally, global integrated supply chains and free access to EU markets.

She attracted Japanese firms (Honda, Toyota, Nissan and more) to the UK on the promise of easy* access European Markets (see link to her Lancaster House speech where she launches her 'Europe is Open for Business' campaign in 1988).

Globalisation coupled with privatisation allowed foreign companies the chance to buy British companies losing it the UK.

Its pretty clear to me we lost much of our manufacturing industries as a direct result of Thatcher policy.

And the loss of manufacturing in much of the Western world at the same time? And the loss of manufacturing before she came to power? Was that down to Thatcher too? She must have been very influential. If you want to argue that the Labour and Tory governments of the previous decade used vast amounts of public money to stave off the inevitable then I would agree with you to a point.

I’m not going to repeat the arguments that I have previously made on the point. The best part of forty years has passed and it has little bearing on the subject of this thread.

It’s a strange one; you repeatedly hold forth upon Thatcher’s support for a single market as though you think it a bad thing – the epitome of globalisation of you will - when you come across as being a very strong remainer.

[KerrAvon]

And of course our energy costs are now much more acceptable aren't they with many energy company's profits residing in foreign banks with taxes on profits benefitting foreign governments

Aye much better arrangement

If the price of energy is a concern to you, the issue is whether a state owned monopoly would deliver cheaper prices to users than a competitive market. I doubt it, but there you go.

[KerrAvon]

Not enough demand for Steel could have contributed to your Grandfather losing his job. I also had relatives at Hadfields and BSC.
The orders Hadfields gained when BSC was on strike didn't do too much good, when BSC workers went back to work the lost orders came back with them.Hadfields made almost 2k redundant not too long after that steel strike and finally closed in 1983, two years after the strike.

Divide and conquer.

But who was doing the dividing in the 70s and early 80s? See below for my take on it.