O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

I'd say it has always been the state of humanity rA and anybody who has the temerity to suggest that there could be a different approach is dismissed as an idealist.

That of course is the lazy approach of people who seem to be unaware that much of what they enjoy in life today, be they vaccines, the health service, better wages, better working conditions, the right to free speech, better safety, have all been achieved by people who were idealists.

Of course ideals are not always fully attainable, but if there isn't the vision or the ideal then very little will be achieved.

Nutshell time...completely agree.

[swaledale]

Ah yes, the "Little Swaler" syndrome, everything hasn't gone a bit Swalelistic now actually, this ego knows the right dog whistle which will conveniently make the proles forget about the previous Swaloids and prostrate himself gratefully.

Sometimes you make sense, unfortunately this post isn't one of those! Never mind, it must be nice to live in fantasy land, I guess it stops you worrying about things you don't understand. Ah bless.

[Geoff Parkstone]

rA "Of course I’m not going to suggest that Mrs rA and I give up our vaccines in favour of two ‘Indian care workers’...which bit of being genuinely pleased for Andy’s Mum did you miss? I am however sick and tired of this ‘we were first mentality’...it’s nothing but a publicity stunt and yes...I’ll be just as pleased to hear about some elderly German or Spanish acquaintances receiving the vaccine as I will about you and Andy’s mothers...it’s not a competition."


A competition? Let me put it this way. We as a country (and indeed as a globe) have had nothing but bad news for about a year as COVID rampages through the country and the globe, causing death, economic destruction, widespread disruption, mental health issues etc. The people need to hear some good news to lift spirits and to show that its all not doom and gloom.

So we speak of our small successes and perhaps cheer up the nation. Then along come the sourpusses and say in effect "stop bigging yourself up, think of the rest of the world - you lot have ****ed everything up for so long you don't deserve a moment of triumph". The point is, its not so much triumphalism, but good for morale, maybe peps people up a little during what will be a bleak January, it gives hope that we may see a way out of this mess. Everyone I have spoken to say that the feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel and are happy that we are, for now, ahead of the game - and then came you!

I think seeing a bit of positivism and a possible way out of persistent lockdowns are good for the people and country, they will be more inclined to adhere to this one and thus help overcome the odds. I really dont think the "one world" approach helps the situation at all. had Boris stood up and said that we were delaying roll out to our people so that we can send some of our supplies to Borneo, how do you think the majority of Little Englanders (measured of course by those who voted) would have reacted? "oh thank you Boris, you are so magnanimous and generous" or "**** off you total tosser?"

[ramAnag]

rA "Of course I’m not going to suggest that Mrs rA and I give up our vaccines in favour of two ‘Indian care workers’...which bit of being genuinely pleased for Andy’s Mum did you miss? I am however sick and tired of this ‘we were first mentality’...it’s nothing but a publicity stunt and yes...I’ll be just as pleased to hear about some elderly German or Spanish acquaintances receiving the vaccine as I will about you and Andy’s mothers...it’s not a competition."


A competition? Let me put it this way. We as a country (and indeed as a globe) have had nothing but bad news for about a year as COVID rampages through the country and the globe, causing death, economic destruction, widespread disruption, mental health issues etc. The people need to hear some good news to lift spirits and to show that its all not doom and gloom.

So we speak of our small successes and perhaps cheer up the nation. Then along come the sourpusses and say in effect "stop bigging yourself up, think of the rest of the world - you lot have ****ed everything up for so long you don't deserve a moment of triumph". The point is, its not so much triumphalism, but good for morale, maybe peps people up a little during what will be a bleak January, it gives hope that we may see a way out of this mess. Everyone I have spoken to say that the feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel and are happy that we are, for now, ahead of the game - and then came you!

I think seeing a bit of positivism and a possible way out of persistent lockdowns are good for the people and country, they will be more inclined to adhere to this one and thus help overcome the odds. I really dont think the "one world" approach helps the situation at all. had Boris stood up and said that we were delaying roll out to our people so that we can send some of our supplies to Borneo, how do you think the majority of Little Englanders (measured of course by those who voted) would have reacted? "oh thank you Boris, you are so magnanimous and generous" or "**** off you total tosser?"

I honestly don’t know whether it’s honest or deliberate misinterpretation on your part, but in your last two posts you’ve implied that I somehow want the UK to send some part of our supplies to India, Indonesia and now Borneo. I don’t and I haven’t suggested that ever.

I simply want the World to act together in trying to ensure that as many people as possible are vaccinated as soon as possible and that the best way to achieve that is by pooling resources and expertise.

I am as desperate to see a ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ as you and everyone else and yes it is good for morale as long as, yet again, it doesn’t result in more false promises...the last one of which, about schools, lasted all of thirty five hours before being proved to have been complete jibberish.

[Ram59]

Let’s not start getting too complacent Andy and Ram. Hopefully our Government will have done a good job of sourcing sufficient vaccines and, IF they have then they’ll deserve the credit...but we’re still the country in Europe with the highest number of cases and deaths and BJ is still the PM who, less than thirty six hours after announcing that all schools were safe, had to announce that they would all be closing as part of an urgently needed national lockdown.

The way I see it we’re reliant much more on a combination of the NHS and local government to ‘get millions of Brits vaccinated’ but hopefully the Government’s procurement skills will greatly outweigh their management and communication efforts.

I’d also love to see an end to this ‘competitive’ aspect. I don’t care if a ninety year old lady from the UK was the first to be jabbed three weeks ago...I’d just like to see a ‘joined up’ World effort to vaccinate as many people as possible across the entire planet.

You're twisting things a bit there RA, by no means am I getting complacent and I don't have the greatest faith that we will be getting 2 million vaccinations completed every week, for some time. What I was saying was that if we were still tied to the EU and their common vaccination policy, then we would have zero chance of rolling out the vaccination programme in large numbers in the short term, no matter who the government was. I'm not claiming for one second that the job is done, in fact I'm a little dismayed that I've seen no evidence of any mass vaccination centres manned by service personnel as of yet.

As for the joined up effort to support a global vaccination programme, don't you think that the Oxford vaccine will achieve this for the third world countries, whereas the Pfizer vaccine developed by your very clever German and Turkish scientists has been developed solely for use in rich western countries?

[Andy_Faber]

the way forward is is for a united Worldwide effortD

....eventually.

Your own and posts are in any case riddled with unfavourable comparisons to other nations so it strikes me as a bit hypocritical to play the ‘worldwide effort’ card now U.K. are on the up on something

My view on JC or rather his boss is he’s just a single fellah in a big room full of a million plates he has to keep spinning, and a big one recently hit the floor. We’re all human

[AdiSalisbury]

Sometimes you make sense, unfortunately this post isn't one of those! Never mind, it must be nice to live in fantasy land, I guess it stops you worrying about things you don't understand. Ah bless.

I'm just walking in a Swaley Wonderland, admiring the view.

[ramAnag]

You're twisting things a bit there RA, by no means am I getting complacent and I don't have the greatest faith that we will be getting 2 million vaccinations completed every week, for some time. What I was saying was that if we were still tied to the EU and their common vaccination policy, then we would have zero chance of rolling out the vaccination programme in large numbers in the short term, no matter who the government was. I'm not claiming for one second that the job is done, in fact I'm a little dismayed that I've seen no evidence of any mass vaccination centres manned by service personnel as of yet.

As for the joined up effort to support a global vaccination programme, don't you think that the Oxford vaccine will achieve this for the third world countries, whereas the Pfizer vaccine developed by your very clever German and Turkish scientists has been developed solely for use in rich western countries?

Didn’t mean to ‘twist’ anything and I can only share your ‘dismay’ and reservation Ram. I listened to a GP (Rosemary Leonard who sometimes works for the BBC so will be immediately discredited by some) on the radio this morning. Wherever she works (not sure) had been promised the vaccine on the 29th Dec...then the 4th Jan...then the 11th of Jan with the latest estimate being the 15-17th Jan.
If that’s true dismay begins to turn to despair, but one must never question because it upsets GP who allows himself to be perpetually pessimistic and critical about DCFC but gets all uppity if one criticises his beloved Government.

My comment more specifically in relation to your earlier point was that you seem to regularly compare us to your perception of what is happening in the EU to make some sort of pro Brexit point. I don’t understand how that’s helpful.

Sorry...I may have missed or misunderstood something, but I don’t understand your final paragraph...or Andy’s.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry...I may have missed or misunderstood something, but I don’t understand your final paragraph...or Andy’s.

But did you understand the middle one?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I honestly don’t know whether it’s honest or deliberate misinterpretation on your part, but in your last two posts you’ve implied that I somehow want the UK to send some part of our supplies to India, Indonesia and now Borneo. I don’t and I haven’t suggested that ever.

I simply want the World to act together in trying to ensure that as many people as possible are vaccinated as soon as possible and that the best way to achieve that is by pooling resources and expertise.

I am as desperate to see a ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ as you and everyone else and yes it is good for morale as long as, yet again, it doesn’t result in more false promises...the last one of which, about schools, lasted all of thirty five hours before being proved to have been complete jibberish.

What do you think is happening at the moment then? If ever there has been an example of the world pooling resources, skill and developments this is it. You have already mentioned the Pfizer vaccine being German Turkish made in Belgium, with Pfizer being a US company with big research/manufacturing facilities in UK and elsewhere (her indoors used to work for them). Astra Zeneca is a global company (British Swedish US Poland).

I'm not familiar with the global rollout programs, and I am sure that priorities will be given to those who ordered first and made the advance payments against those orders to fund the research that helped create the drugs. However I am sure that the drug will be made available globally as it rolls out, and doubtless there are queues outside Pfizer and AZ doors with orders. But many third world countries have no structure to administer the drugs, no proper state health services etc. Its not going to be easy to get something into everyone's arms, even if they want it (eg religious reasons etc). The logistics are going to be horrible - and of course everyone will want it for free, which doesn't exactly tie in with big Pharma mentality.

Of course Europe and North America will get it first and maybe they will pay enough for it to make cut price options available to those nations who cannot pay. So it seems to me that the world is adopting a global approach, but clearly Europe and USA are going to be the guinea pigs to ensure it works before being given wider exposure.

Equally of course there is a possibility, indeed probability that UK vax targets may not be met - they are of course very optimistic looking, but even if we get 75% of the way by mid February it will be the result of immense hard work and organisational skills.

I feel to accuse BJ, the government and even the country of triumphalism is somewhat ironic from someone who bathes in the warm waters of triumphalism and "I told you so" whenever BJ/government has to change direction of policy etc culminating in your last para above. You might not see this as triumphalism, but to my mind if isomething walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, its usually a duck.