O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

Hell! I even capitalised my position for you, but you are still misrepresenting it. I think it impossible to draw any particular conclusions from the studies to which you refer.

Just out of curiosity, why did you first link to the report if you think it demonstrates no difference between Labour and Conservative governments on economic performance? I can’t recall and don't have time to look it up at the moment.

Do you know of any studies that make the comparison without taking account of the 13 years of non-Labour Labour government between 1997 and 2010? That would be a jolly interesting one.

I linked the report as, interestingly it showed (as I expressed in my comments at the time), that Labour, since 1956 with the exception of the mid 70s, performed just as well as, if not better than, the Conservatives in ALL (just winding you up x) economic indicators. The down side (for social justice warriors like us) was that there was little difference in overall public spending between the two parties (historically). In fact Thatcher, in real terms, spent more than Labour on social infrastructure! Surprising innit? A point I made clear at the time. A quite impartial conclusion don't you think from a rabid member of Momentum like myself?

By all means, use the data I provided to compare the two parties with the exclusion of the 97-10 Labour party. But you will find that there is very little difference. Go ahead, and report back, do. Obviously damage was done by the 74-78 years in people's minds (but of course should include, in any intelligent analysis the decade leading up to it) when a Labour Government presided over a mess. No excuses from me. Just a shame that this is all you've got to try and shoot down the forces that, let's face it, are coming in to overwhelm you...

[KerrAvon]

I linked the report as, interestingly it showed (as I expressed in my comments at the time), that Labour, since 1956 with the exception of the mid 70s, performed just as well as, if not better than, the Conservatives in ALL (just winding you up x) economic indicators. The down side (for social justice warriors like us) was that there was little difference in overall public spending between the two parties (historically). In fact Thatcher, in real terms, spent more than Labour on social infrastructure! Surprising innit? A point I made clear at the time. A quite impartial conclusion don't you think from a rabid member of Momentum like myself?

By all means, use the data I provided to compare the two parties with the exclusion of the 97-10 Labour party. But you will find that there is very little difference. Go ahead, and report back, do. Obviously damage was done by the 74-78 years in people's minds (but of course should include, in any intelligent analysis the decade leading up to it) when a Labour Government presided over a mess. No excuses from me. Just a shame that this is all you've got to try and shoot down the forces that, let's face it, are coming in to overwhelm you...

I'm guessing you don't remember 1974 to 1979? If you did you would know that damage was done in more than people's minds.

You seem to me moving from a position where the report showed nothing to where it showed Labour in a good light... I think animal's fluidity problem may be catching.

If you've done an analysis that allows you to make the comment that you will find that there is very little difference by excluding 1997 to 2010, why don’t you share it?

By 2022, I’m hoping to be retired and living in France, so I doubt if I will be overwhelmed. If a Corbyn stylee Labour government gets in, history suggests you and the other people who vote them in will be underwhelmed and quickly looking to replace them with the Tories.

[animallittle3]

Are we still having a Festival Of Brexit ?

Not heard it mentioned for a day or two and I need to book the time off work .

Anyone got an update , thanks in advance !!!

[WanChaiMiller]

Are we still having a Festival Of Brexit ?

Not heard it mentioned for a day or two and I need to book the time off work .

Anyone got an update , thanks in advance !!!

Enjoy the event. You will emerge poorer in every sense.

Maybe you are happy that youve deen conned by Rees Mogg and his European Research group. Remember he champions no deal yet reveals we will not see any economic benefit for 50 years. While the rest of UK busnesses suffers he is ok safe in the knowledge his investment company has its head office in Dublin with direct access to EU markets.

[WanChaiMiller]

Save that my point is based on fact whereas yours is very dodgy speculation. It was Callaghan not Wilson who had to go cap in hand to the IMF in 1976 and, in the 12 years preceding that event, there had been 8 years of Labour government and 4 of Conservative.

I think you have just hit the ball on the turn and blasted it into the top corner of your own net. And that’s an own goal no matter what the decade.

It was inflation that caused devaluation of the pound. These events had its roots in the period Heath was leader. You said in a previous post it was due to international events outside the control of our domestic government (which I agree). Yet you blame the Labour for the continuation of same economic problem when they came to power in 74. I thought you dealt in fact?

[KerrAvon]

It was inflation that caused devaluation of the pound. These events had its roots in the period Heath was leader. You said in a previous post it was due to international events outside the control of our domestic government (which I agree). Yet you blame the Labour for the continuation of same economic problem when they came to power in 74. I thought you dealt in fact?

You are going a bit off topic with this.

I’m not sure what previous post of mine you have in mind but my position is the fairly obvious one that the performance of an economy is influenced both by domestic policies and outside events. As examples, the non-Labour government in 2008 had to deal with a massive worldwide crash and the Condem and Tory governments that followed from 2010 have had to deal with the aftermath of that crash. Domestic policies do matter of course, and as I might have mentioned I believe that if current Labour Party policies were implemented it would result in the widespread destruction of jobs and pension values.

Your view of inflation is not borne out by historical data. Inflation started on an upward tend in 1968 under Labour and then really took off under Labour in 1974. It peaked in 1975 and then, understandably given the intervention of the IMF, began to fall in 1976. After spiking in 1979 and 1980 it then started a descent to ‘normal’ levels.

Looking back at the seventies there were external factors at play, notably the oil shock of 1973. The UK economy was also in a state of transition with it being dependent upon manufacturing that had become uncompetitive in world markets. There were clear internal factors at play too – notably the Labour government habit of printing money and borrowing money to meet inflation fuelling wage demands and spend on public services . In addition the habit of the Trade Unions to make unsustainable and inflation fuelling wage demands and back them up with economically damaging strikes made UK businesses even less competitive. It is unsurprising that inflation got out of control.

The IMF had to step in to bail the Labour government out in 1976 and in return, suggested (in rather forcible terms) that they stop printing money and cut their spending. The relative austerity that followed resulted in the TU’s winter of discontent and the rest is Thatcherite history.

Personally, I think Denis Healey may be one of the greatest Prime Ministers that we never had. We’ll never know as Labour failed to face down the unions earlier or voluntarily implement the policies forced upon them by the IMF.

[WanChaiMiller]

A vote of no confidence has been announced. The chief whip has received 48 letters which automatically triggers the vote of no confidence.

Scary times ahead!

Anyone looking forward to PM Boris Johnson?

The party that just keeps giving.

[rolymiller]

As the song goes: its time for you to go...ferk off!

Wonder if Corbyn might stick the boot in now and want a vote of no confidence in the whole sorry shebang. Get rid of all the useless two hats.

[animallittle3]

A vote of no confidence has been announced. The chief whip has received 48 letters which automatically triggers the vote of no confidence.

Scary times ahead!

Anyone looking forward to PM Boris Johnson?

Can't see even this sack of horse shyte of a government installing the buffoon .

I think she'll manage to hang on personally , she needs to get 158 votes and it's possible she could get them in my opinion .

Mind you who can predict anything these days ?

[gm_gm]

Its a mess and will continue to be a mess whoever is in charge of the government, I just hope theres not another referendum...please no

The only positive is if there were a general election the Labour party at present are undetectable