OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

You will always get sour grapes from remainers as nothing short of an exit deal that completely matched, or even bettered, the pre existing stay in deal will be considered a disaster of biblical flood proportions.

They not so much consider the virtues of the deal but rather return to the shouldn't leave anyway premise and will always feel sold short not so much by any deal as by the principal.

So they chew over the old fat.....

Which shows a total lack of comprehension - it was the Brexiteers who promised that there were "no downsides to brexit" that we "would be able to negotiate a deal as good as the one we had as members of the EU" that we would be able to have "essentially the same benefits outside the EU as in".

So if Remainers expected a deal that was close to the existing deal we had - wasn't that reasonable considering the claims made by leading Brexiteers?

So how is it sour grapes? How is it chewing over old fat? You mean not being conned by the *******s thats been spouted over something that is neither an achievement or something to be proud of? Its a very sad day for the UK, its international reputation sullied, its standing and influence in the world reduced, its economic prospects damaged and its population still largely ignorant about what has happend.

I've comprehensively demonstrated that virtually everything that was claimed by those who actively promoted Leave/Brexit was factually incorrect, lies or at best misleading.

This "deal" has not achieved anything that the Brexit supporters ahve claimed - its a bare minimum that could all have been agreed many months ago, but was dragged out in order to fool people into believing that the Uk has achieved something close to what people was promised!

But as I can tell by the above responses, the fact is people don't acknowledge the truth, they prefer to swallow the lies, no doubt a large proportion of the population, aided an abetted by a right wing owned media will also swallow these lies, yet any rational vaguely sentient person can see clearly the situation.

What has happened is that we have a very poor deal, that will massively increase costs and documentation for industry, for consumers, for people who travel, costs which the consumer and taxpayer will be paying unnecessarily plus the costs in job losses and opportunities for people both now and in the future.

SO GP and AF, you have confirmed what I always suspected, for all your claims of informed "bubbles" you grasp of reality is sadly lacking.

[Andy_Faber]

So how is it sour grapes?.

Lighten up, I was having a bit of harmless joshing.

[macstheman]

And a jolly Xmas to you all!

[Andy_Faber]

And a jolly Xmas to you all!

Same all round

[MadAmster]

Question.

Is this "deal" any better than the one of May's in 2019 that Johnson found to be so awful that he resigned over it?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Didn't know May had a post Brexit trade deal to table, thought her problems were getting a withdrawal agreement approved? Goes to show how closely I followed it!!

[Andy_Faber]

I think remoaners would have a good case for continuing to remoan if HMG hadn’t done a deal but they have, a deal is done. Will remoaners now get behind ukplc as it forges a new path or will they continue to fight a lost cause? Who will be our own Hiroo Onoda, still holding out til 2049 in the depths of Sherwood Forest with a machete in one hand and a tattered EU flag in the other?

[swaledale]

As always you miss the point - it isn't about whether a deal was going to be done, even Johnson was well aware that a no deal would be disastrous for the Uk.

Neither is it a case of fighting a lost cause, its pure and simply holding the Government and Brexit supporters to account, this deal will leave us in a worse position, than could have been the case if a sensible approach had been followed - a hard Brexit based on such a narrow majority is neither democratic nor reasonable, but it seems a wafer thin majority, not all of whom by any means wanted a hard Brexit, have been railroaded into a position, which neither represents the claims made by the Brexiteers in the referendum, or indeed the claims made by the Tory government only last year.

If you really think that over half the population of the UK at least should just accept this and "move on" without clearly demonstrating what a **** show Brexit has been and by continuing to call out and remind people of what lies and falsehoods they voted for, then all I can say is you neither value democracy and frankly deserve whatever **** fall on your head as a result of Brexit!

You and others consistently moan about politicians but have never ever done anything about it. The mindless compliant millions who vote in these ****s every time!

Thats why people who at the outset could see what a stupid idea Brexit was for the UK, and said so, only to get responses from those who voted leave which neither made sense nor were based in reality, will continue to highlight the issues and falsehoods and indeed say "told you so" to those who now pretend that there are no downsides to Brexit.

THE GOVERNMENTS BREXIT CONTRACT WITH THE BRITISH PEOPLE (as published by them)

1. EU Trade – Exactly the same benefits – Not even close, benefits lost, frictionless trade lost, services not included
2. Trade Deals signed on Day 1 – they weren’t, other than minor existing deals that have been rolled over they still aren’t!
3. Money more for public services like the NHS – not the case, in fact Brexit will be more expensive than EU membership!
4. Northern Ireland no changes to the border – clearly not the case!
5. Rights, fully protected - Uk citizens have lost freedom of movement within EU, right to work within EU, equivalence of qualifications lost, student exchange schemes lost, health benefits lost, pension benefits lost – clearly not the case
6. Security all cooperation’s maintained – no access to Galileo (military satellite) no access to EU criminal databases which UK Police use millions of time a year, security clearly compromised
7. UK integrity of Union maintained – Northern Ireland already different, Scots independence more likely, Brexit has increased the likely hood of the UK breaking up.
8. Science – partnerships strengthened – NO – weakened by lack of access to EU research programmes, top scientists from around the world relocating in the EU, UK research sector weakened.
9. Date – fully out in 2019 – we weren’t
10. Immigration, drastically reduced, nope it will just be a different composition and it will be difficult for many employers to recruit the workers they need.


Just goes to show that a hell of a lot of people are so ****ing stupid.

[Andy_Faber]

As always you miss the point - it isn't about whether a deal was going to be done, even Johnson was well aware that a no deal would be disastrous for the Uk.

Neither is it a case of fighting a lost cause, its pure and simply holding the Government and Brexit supporters to account, this deal will leave us in a worse position, than could have been the case if a sensible approach had been followed - a hard Brexit based on such a narrow majority is neither democratic nor reasonable, but it seems a wafer thin majority, not all of whom by any means wanted a hard Brexit, have been railroaded into a position, which neither represents the claims made by the Brexiteers in the referendum, or indeed the claims made by the Tory government only last year.

If you really think that over half the population of the UK at least should just accept this and "move on" without clearly demonstrating what a **** show Brexit has been and by continuing to call out and remind people of what lies and falsehoods they voted for, then all I can say is you neither value democracy and frankly deserve whatever **** fall on your head as a result of Brexit!

You and others consistently moan about politicians but have never ever done anything about it. The mindless compliant millions who vote in these ****s every time!

Thats why people who at the outset could see what a stupid idea Brexit was for the UK, and said so, only to get responses from those who voted leave which neither made sense nor were based in reality, will continue to highlight the issues and falsehoods and indeed say "told you so" to those who now pretend that there are no downsides to Brexit.

THE GOVERNMENTS BREXIT CONTRACT WITH THE BRITISH PEOPLE (as published by them)

1. EU Trade – Exactly the same benefits – Not even close, benefits lost, frictionless trade lost, services not included
2. Trade Deals signed on Day 1 – they weren’t, other than minor existing deals that have been rolled over they still aren’t!
3. Money more for public services like the NHS – not the case, in fact Brexit will be more expensive than EU membership!
4. Northern Ireland no changes to the border – clearly not the case!
5. Rights, fully protected - Uk citizens have lost freedom of movement within EU, right to work within EU, equivalence of qualifications lost, student exchange schemes lost, health benefits lost, pension benefits lost – clearly not the case
6. Security all cooperation’s maintained – no access to Galileo (military satellite) no access to EU criminal databases which UK Police use millions of time a year, security clearly compromised
7. UK integrity of Union maintained – Northern Ireland already different, Scots independence more likely, Brexit has increased the likely hood of the UK breaking up.
8. Science – partnerships strengthened – NO – weakened by lack of access to EU research programmes, top scientists from around the world relocating in the EU, UK research sector weakened.
9. Date – fully out in 2019 – we weren’t
10. Immigration, drastically reduced, nope it will just be a different composition and it will be difficult for many employers to recruit the workers they need.


Just goes to show that a hell of a lot of people are so ****ing stupid.

I can’t help you with the flag but I have a ceremonial sword if that would help

[Geoff Parkstone]

There is an expression "pissing into the wind" and I would recommend you stop trying it Swale. What's done is done, we all know your anti Brexit views, but there is a time to realise when to give up and stop boring the crap out of everyone.

I voted remain, albeit marginally. So did Andy. But we recognised that, in accordance with the rules of the game, we lost. You (and rA) still dont accept that. It's time to grow up and 4 years on stop thinking that if you shout loud enough at everyone and try to humiliate them for not agreeing with you, this will somehow change things.

If you are as deeply concerned about the UK economy and the future as you appear to be, then put your energies behind making the best of what you believe to be a bad job. Railing against everyone who lied to you and against almost everyone else who you regard as stupid achieves nothing.

Put the shoulder of your mighty intellect to the wheel of making up for the inadequacies of everyone else, rather than blowing hot air.

If, that is, you actually do care about the fate of the fools that surround you - which I doubt. We have been repeatedly told that you're all right, Jack, so time to do something constructive for a change instead of lashing out at all who surround you.