O/T The Gov, Not Fit for Fracking Purpose!!!

[millmoormagic]

"It doesn't matter what i call a tomato"...miserable sod as well then.

I would say march 1983 was months before the strike, what would you call it....

Nottinghamshire miners were always going to vote against the strike, they had done traditionally, and no surprises there, Derbyshire miners voted against 50.1%, you're being pedantic again, as i stated before, all the ballots preious to the strike returned 50%+ in favour, just not the 55% required to trigger, also, 49.9% is a pretty big figure for a strike, wouldn't you say?

Yes i took part in secondary picketing, and proud to do so, whether it was "illegal" or not i couldn't care less to be honest, my future and my family's future came before any law brought into control and prevent protest.

No, i'm not saying things happened when they shouldn't, as with everything there's always some who take things too far, and what has Rotherham supporters chanting scab got to do with anything? For what it's worth i never involve myself in that, because funnily enough i see calling someone a scab is a proper insult, a derogatory term for someone who has turned his back on his workmates, so i only ever use dthe word when it mattered, to scabs. What about the 7000 miners who turned up at Orgreave, let me educate you, again, about the psyche of the majority of those blokes, they didn't all turn up ready for a fight, it was a picket to stop the movement of coke, and there were no weapons on the miner's side, there were no horses and dogs and truncheons, there were trainers and t shirts, and most of that was a push and shove episode until, of course, the police sent the horses in, and snatch squads, only when the police brutality was plain to see did it turn ugly, i wa sthere fella, so don't try and lecture me on what happened, maybe you, like millions of others, saw the BBC news later that day that showed the sky full of missiles then the horses going in and took your opinion from that, well let me tell you that that was the other way round, PROVEN that the BBC edited that to show the miners in poor light, keep believing that crap Kerr, because you've been duped, and not only on this subject, by blatant propoganda.

The killing of David Wilkie was indeed tragic, tell me again, did the perpetrators get caught and sentenced? oh, the answer is yes, what about the perpetrators of the killing of David Jones or Joe Green then, what about the countless numbers of miners victims of police brutality, of police corruption, of then getting dismissed for doing nothing.

Yes the miners happily worked the overtime, kids to feed and all that eh? As you keep saying about uneconomics, again a subject you know nothing about, as each and every coal mine can have difficulties in geological conditions, so it could be uneconomic for a time until those conditions were worked through, and then be economic for periods after, it is not like going to work, sitting at your desk, then going home, you see, anyone who knows anything about mining knew that, and the gov't knew that also, chose to disregard that and trigger the strike, you see that's what happened. The gov't went into it with a cool head, yes, correct, because all the odds were stacked in their favour very easy to be cool when you have the might of the state behind you, ad they still only just managed it.

[animallittle3]

Stuffing the generations to come? That's a bit rich coming from a supporter of Corbyn - a man whose sole economic policy seems to be borrow, borrow, borrow and let future generations pick up the tab.

As for social housing, which is more than a bit off-topic, is your ambition for the working man that he should always live in rented accommodation to which he has no right to buy? A nineteenth century Tory would have been proud of you.

It's the only thing the Tories know , steal the country's assets , sell them to their rich friends in the city and disappear like a thief in the night with the lolly .

There's nothing wrong in offering social housing for sale to long term tenents it's the bit where none of that money is reinvested to replenish social housing stock and ensure future generations have the opportunity to gain affordable housing .

But then again it all makes perfect logical sense now , destroy communities , split , divide , conquer call it what you will .

Profit v Need , a debate the blue nose thieves never understand , why ? because they've robbed off the poor every day they've ever existed .

[animallittle3]

Are you saying that Corbyn has another economic policy? Is he going to plant money trees? The Tories have borrowed plenty, but far more than the Left wanted.

Only two Labour Governments have ever left office accumulating more debt than they inherited .

Ramsay Macdonald's government faced the Wall Street crash of 1931 and Blair and Brown in 2008 and the great banking swindle .

Every other Labour government reduced the debt they inherited , even a cheeky 4% in the late 70's under Callaghan .

Do crack on Kerr .

[millmoormagic]

Only two Labour Governments have ever left office accumulating more debt than they inherited .

Ramsay Macdonald's government faced the Wall Street crash of 1931 and Blair and Brown in 2008 and the great banking swindle .

Every other Labour government reduced the debt they inherited , even a cheeky 4% in the late 70's under Callaghan .

Do crack on Kerr .

...Don't worry, the country's assets are safe in the tory's hands, after all, they're the only party that can be trusted with public finances arent they???

[KerrAvon]

"It doesn't matter what i call a tomato"...miserable sod as well then.

I would say march 1983 was months before the strike, what would you call it....

Nottinghamshire miners were always going to vote against the strike, they had done traditionally, and no surprises there, Derbyshire miners voted against 50.1%, you're being pedantic again, as i stated before, all the ballots preious to the strike returned 50%+ in favour, just not the 55% required to trigger, also, 49.9% is a pretty big figure for a strike, wouldn't you say?

Yes i took part in secondary picketing, and proud to do so, whether it was "illegal" or not i couldn't care less to be honest, my future and my family's future came before any law brought into control and prevent protest.

No, i'm not saying things happened when they shouldn't, as with everything there's always some who take things too far, and what has Rotherham supporters chanting scab got to do with anything? For what it's worth i never involve myself in that, because funnily enough i see calling someone a scab is a proper insult, a derogatory term for someone who has turned his back on his workmates, so i only ever use dthe word when it mattered, to scabs. What about the 7000 miners who turned up at Orgreave, let me educate you, again, about the psyche of the majority of those blokes, they didn't all turn up ready for a fight, it was a picket to stop the movement of coke, and there were no weapons on the miner's side, there were no horses and dogs and truncheons, there were trainers and t shirts, and most of that was a push and shove episode until, of course, the police sent the horses in, and snatch squads, only when the police brutality was plain to see did it turn ugly, i wa sthere fella, so don't try and lecture me on what happened, maybe you, like millions of others, saw the BBC news later that day that showed the sky full of missiles then the horses going in and took your opinion from that, well let me tell you that that was the other way round, PROVEN that the BBC edited that to show the miners in poor light, keep believing that crap Kerr, because you've been duped, and not only on this subject, by blatant propoganda.

The killing of David Wilkie was indeed tragic, tell me again, did the perpetrators get caught and sentenced? oh, the answer is yes, what about the perpetrators of the killing of David Jones or Joe Green then, what about the countless numbers of miners victims of police brutality, of police corruption, of then getting dismissed for doing nothing.

Yes the miners happily worked the overtime, kids to feed and all that eh? As you keep saying about uneconomics, again a subject you know nothing about, as each and every coal mine can have difficulties in geological conditions, so it could be uneconomic for a time until those conditions were worked through, and then be economic for periods after, it is not like going to work, sitting at your desk, then going home, you see, anyone who knows anything about mining knew that, and the gov't knew that also, chose to disregard that and trigger the strike, you see that's what happened. The gov't went into it with a cool head, yes, correct, because all the odds were stacked in their favour very easy to be cool when you have the might of the state behind you, ad they still only just managed it.

I would agree that March 1983 was 12 months before the strike. The only problem for you with that is that the national ballot at that time was not in favour of a strike in any sense. It was rejected 61% to 39%

It’s simply not true that all the ballots previous to the strike returned 50%+ in favour. All three ballots rejected strike action: 55% to 45% in January 1982 and 61% to 39% in October 1982. Three ballots, three straight defeats for the position of the NUM leadership and so they went to plan B; don’t ask – tell - and if anyone doesn’t do as they are told, unleash the mob.

In area ballots called after the strike had started, only the Northumbrian miners rejected action upon the basis that they had polled more than 50% in favour, but less than 55%. The point however, is that 55% was the figure required to trigger a strike by the NUM constitution. That’s the document that formed the basis of the contractual arrangement between the NUM and its members – the people who funded the union with their hard earned cash. When it suited them, the NUM ignored the rights of the people they were supposed to represent and denied them the nation ballot to which they were entitled and had, in a sense, paid for. Who needs predatory employers when you have ‘representation’ like that?

The NUM reaction to the results of the Lancashire area vote after the strike had started is particularly telling. The miners there polled 59% to 41% against strike action, but the local leadership tried to argue that provided a mandate for an official strike. You couldn’t make it up.

I’m not being pedantic about the result of the action of the Derbyshire vote. I’m being accurate. It didn’t provide a mandate for an official area strike upon the basis of either simple majority or that required by the NUM constitution.

The secondary picketing you took part in was illegal not ‘illegal’. Clearly you couldn’t care less or you wouldn’t have done it. So how can you complain about the alleged illegal reaction of some of the police? If you had unilaterally decided that the law didn’t matter, then you can hardly complain if elements of the other side apparently took the same view, although I expect you will continue to do so.

Scab chanting has everything to do with it. You are trying to paint the flying pickets as victims - sweet innocent souls who turned up at pits and other businesses and tried to persuade working people not to exercise their choice to work with a few kind words and a smile. Despite that, thirty or so years on, I’ve seen grown men going crimson in the face as they chant at Forest fans rather than watch the match and encouraging kids to do the same. At exactly what point are you saying they dropped gentle persuasion and turned to that sort of behaviour?

Wasn’t 7000 rather a lot to try to gently persuade. It was a number that was intended to and did intimidate. You are incredibly naïve if you think that wouldn’t inevitably draw a police response, particularly as it was also illegal. To address a particular point that you make, I’ve never suggested that everyone that went there to picket went for a fight, but they had the chance to walk away when they got there and saw the numbers involved.

Well done on acknowledging the tragedy of the killing of David Wilkie. I assume that you are accepting that was the action of striking miners rather than being some else’s fault? I expect that you think it aberrant behaviour on their part? That they had given up on peaceful picketing that everyone else took part in?

[KerrAvon]

It's the only thing the Tories know , steal the country's assets , sell them to their rich friends in the city and disappear like a thief in the night with the lolly .

There's nothing wrong in offering social housing for sale to long term tenents it's the bit where none of that money is reinvested to replenish social housing stock and ensure future generations have the opportunity to gain affordable housing .

But then again it all makes perfect logical sense now , destroy communities , split , divide , conquer call it what you will .

Profit v Need , a debate the blue nose thieves never understand , why ? because they've robbed off the poor every day they've ever existed .

Go on then, which assets are you saying that the Tories have stolen? Much of the social housing stock was sold at knock down prices to the occupants of those properties - A chance to be a home owner. What the purchasers chose to do with them later was down to them, but I don't think the city was that interested in buying them.

[KerrAvon]

Only two Labour Governments have ever left office accumulating more debt than they inherited .

Ramsay Macdonald's government faced the Wall Street crash of 1931 and Blair and Brown in 2008 and the great banking swindle .

Every other Labour government reduced the debt they inherited , even a cheeky 4% in the late 70's under Callaghan .

Do crack on Kerr .

So two of the six – a third - of all the Labour governments that have existed have increased the level of national debt? It sounds bad, I’ll grant you, but to be fair to them they were dealing with the two largest financial upheavals in modern history.

[Brin]

"It doesn't matter what i call a tomato"...miserable sod as well then.

I would say march 1983 was months before the strike, what would you call it....

Nottinghamshire miners were always going to vote against the strike, they had done traditionally, and no surprises there, Derbyshire miners voted against 50.1%, you're being pedantic again, as i stated before, all the ballots preious to the strike returned 50%+ in favour, just not the 55% required to trigger, also, 49.9% is a pretty big figure for a strike, wouldn't you say?

Yes i took part in secondary picketing, and proud to do so, whether it was "illegal" or not i couldn't care less to be honest, my future and my family's future came before any law brought into control and prevent protest.

No, i'm not saying things happened when they shouldn't, as with everything there's always some who take things too far, and what has Rotherham supporters chanting scab got to do with anything? For what it's worth i never involve myself in that, because funnily enough i see calling someone a scab is a proper insult, a derogatory term for someone who has turned his back on his workmates, so i only ever use dthe word when it mattered, to scabs. What about the 7000 miners who turned up at Orgreave, let me educate you, again, about the psyche of the majority of those blokes, they didn't all turn up ready for a fight, it was a picket to stop the movement of coke, and there were no weapons on the miner's side, there were no horses and dogs and truncheons, there were trainers and t shirts, and most of that was a push and shove episode until, of course, the police sent the horses in, and snatch squads, only when the police brutality was plain to see did it turn ugly, i wa sthere fella, so don't try and lecture me on what happened, maybe you, like millions of others, saw the BBC news later that day that showed the sky full of missiles then the horses going in and took your opinion from that, well let me tell you that that was the other way round, PROVEN that the BBC edited that to show the miners in poor light, keep believing that crap Kerr, because you've been duped, and not only on this subject, by blatant propoganda.

The killing of David Wilkie was indeed tragic, tell me again, did the perpetrators get caught and sentenced? oh, the answer is yes, what about the perpetrators of the killing of David Jones or Joe Green then, what about the countless numbers of miners victims of police brutality, of police corruption, of then getting dismissed for doing nothing.

Yes the miners happily worked the overtime, kids to feed and all that eh? As you keep saying about uneconomics, again a subject you know nothing about, as each and every coal mine can have difficulties in geological conditions, so it could be uneconomic for a time until those conditions were worked through, and then be economic for periods after, it is not like going to work, sitting at your desk, then going home, you see, anyone who knows anything about mining knew that, and the gov't knew that also, chose to disregard that and trigger the strike, you see that's what happened. The gov't went into it with a cool head, yes, correct, because all the odds were stacked in their favour very easy to be cool when you have the might of the state behind you, ad they still only just managed it.

MM….I've read this post with interest and have to say your points have been more than valid …I salute you Sir..

As for the Tory faced **** who seeks to copy and paste sites to attempt to make this site think he knows it all…then my friend you are simply wasting your time with your justifications…


This prick of the highest order is the type who in a 'battle' would be a deserter of the highest order….

Don't waste your breath pal on this waste of space...

[animallittle3]

So two of the six – a third - of all the Labour governments that have existed have increased the level of national debt? It sounds bad, I’ll grant you, but to be fair to them they were dealing with the two largest financial upheavals in modern history.

Even those two balloons ( Blair , Brown ) paid off more national debt than Thatcher ever did .

This despite selling the country's assets to private enterprise , mind you if you sell them way below market value then what can you expect .

Then again if you are selling to your mates you give then mate rate reductions don't you ?

I suppose if two recessions , 3 million on the dole , the country's assets sold off for toffee , 15% interest rates , a North South divide created for ever is the price to be paid to extinguish the working class and trade unions then more fool you Kerr .

Even more a fool if you grew up in this area and witness the Thatcher legacy at first hand .

Still we have the Falklands war to celebrate .

[Brin]

Even those two balloons ( Blair , Brown ) paid off more national debt than Thatcher ever did .

This despite selling the country's assets to private enterprise , mind you if you sell them way below market value then what can you expect .

Then again if you are selling to your mates you give then mate rate reductions don't you ?

I suppose if two recessions , 3 million on the dole , the country's assets sold off for toffee , 15% interest rates , a North South divide created for ever is the price to be paid to extinguish the working class and trade unions then more fool you Kerr .

Even more a fool if you grew up in this area and witness the Thatcher legacy at first hand .

Still we have the Falklands war to celebrate .

Don't raise to this pompous prick…he's probably jerking off now reading your posts….

He hasn't a single idea what hardship was in those days to come from a strong working class background and probably had a silver spoon upbringing….Would have liked to have seen him suffer a whole year of going without but he is simply rubbing MM's and your noses into the ground….let it go...