O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[kempo]

Kempo, I give you the credit of being more intelligent than that, so you are just being obnoxious. If there are 4000 potential terrorists and we round them up and give them the death penalty, where exactly am I trying to suggest using that as a deterrent to would-be suicide bombers? If we killed them all BEFORE they killed lots of us, that would obviously prevent any terror attacks from them. As a doctor I would have thought you would have recognised that prevention is better than a cure!

Now show me ONE single post I have made which is racist? Where I have used the word Muslim rather than Islamic extremist, it is because I am talking about Muslims, not just the extremists. If I say that more Muslims in our country can only be a bad thing, I don't mean because ALL Muslims are extremists. But it is simple mathematics. The more Muslims who arrive here, the more terrorists will be here. That's very basic, even a young child can understand percentages.

So tell me, where have I been racist?

Tick tock as you say......

Let's get this straight.

If say there are 4000 people on the security services 'known' or 'watch' list you propose putting to death 4000 people!!

Please tell me I have misunderstood you!

[Turfmoorspirit]

I agree with this guy. A realist..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rket4xvu_ac

[kempo]

Ellis..

You astonishingly ask where do you interchange Muslim with Islamic extremist...

Try reading your post 7 again which is overtly racist.

All of us find it shocking and some of us feel the Muslim community could do more to prevent extremism coming out of their rather close knit communities however I find your views outrageous and dangerous and you should be ashamed.

You speak of intelligence and I find it a great shame that an obviously intelligent person like yourself could form such views which are examples of extremism.

[Ellis_D]

Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

[millmoormagic]

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

[Ellis_D]

Let's get this straight.

If say there are 4000 people on the security services 'known' or 'watch' list you propose putting to death 4000 people!!

Please tell me I have misunderstood you!

No, as I just explained to MMM, that is what I would do if in power. And to be honest it was a throwaway remark, spoken in anger anyway. If I was in a position of power to do this, I obviously wouldn't because of the ramifications.

What I am actually suggesting is what I said at the start of that post. Round them up and deport or jail them. The simplest way of preventing them committing terror attacks.

I'm yet to see a better solution to the people who argue with me, too. In fact, I'm yet to see a solution. I've seen many people post on here and on Facebook every time we have a terror attack that they don't have any answers, well nor do the governments of Europe either, hence why we keep getting terror attacks.

Oh, and a further point on more Muslims = more terror attacks, like I said, simple, basic mathematics.... How much terrorism does Japan have? Exactly. And how many Muslims live there? Exactly. Prevention is better than cure. Now the nation has unfortunately pandered to the lefties and their naive views, the rest of us have to try to think of solutions to the crisis, because lefties always do one of three things. One, tell us that we are doing exactly what the terrorists wish by worrying or changing our lifestyles, two, pretend that there really isn't that much of a problem, or three, shrug their shoulders and say they don't know any solutions to the problem.

Amazingly enough, that's all we see on here, yet the lefties are so deluded they can't even begin to understand they are to blame in the first place for wanting to let them all in. Let's hope Japan never make the same mistake, for their own sake.

And the fact that the parents of this latest terrorist, Salman Abedi, are so called refugees who have fled back to the country they were supposedly running from, Libya (they must have been terrified, to go back there!), and the fact his brother, Hashim Abedi and his father, Ramadan Abedi, who was allegedly a member of the al-Qaeda-backed Libyan Islamic Fighting group in the 1990s, have both now been arrested, would suggest to me and tens of other normal thinking people, that we were right all along. We MUST put a stop to Islamic immigration to this country, for however long it takes to resolve these conflicts in the Middle East. And the muppets who constantly denounce the people who speak about the dangers of letting these 'refugees' in must accept the evidence that they got it wrong.

EVERY terror attack in Europe, is more blood on the hands of every deluded person, who doesn't live in the same world as the rest of us, who opens their arms to every so called refugee.

[Ellis_D]

.......................

[Neville_Davitt]

This article is well worth a read.

Mehdi Hasan - Reactions to Manchester Bombing Show How Anti-Muslim Bigots Are “Useful Idiots” for ISIS (May 24 2017)

“IF YOU WANT to defeat ISIS, listen to former ISIS hostage Nicolas Henin. The group is “heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia … [and] drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media,” the French journalist wrote in November 2015 in the wake of the Paris attacks. “Central to their world view is the belief that communities cannot live together with Muslims, and every day their antennae will be tuned towards finding supporting evidence.”

Get that? Islamophobia plays right into the hands of ISIS. Wittingly or unwittingly, anti-Muslim bigots have become recruiting sergeants for a group they profess to hate and claim to want to destroy. The Islamophobes, to borrow a line from Lenin, are ISIS’s useful idiots.

Consider their reaction to the latest terrorist atrocity: Monday’s suicide bombing at a concert hall in Manchester, England, which killed 22 people, including an 8-year-old girl. Could ISIS, which claimed the horrific attack, have asked for a better response from its useful idiots on the British right?

MailOnline columnist and talk radio host Katie has a long history of demonizing Muslims and took to Twitter in the hours after the bombing to demand a “final solution” (later deleting her Nazi-esque tweet after being reported to the police). Hopkins, who once called Islam “the problem” because it is a “backward religion,” also tweeted that “Western men” should: “Stand up. Rise Up. Demand Action.”

Allison Pearson, a columnist with Britain’s biggest-selling broadsheet newspaper, the Daily Telegraph, who has in the past described Muslim immigrants as coming from “some backward culture,” chimed in too. “We need a State of Emergency as France has,” she tweeted in response to the Manchester massacre. “We need internment of thousands of terror suspects now to protect our children.” Innocent until proven guilty? Please.

Then there is Tommy Robinson*, former leader of the far-right English Defence League (think of a British Richard Spencer but, again, with a lesser intellect and a long history of criminality and violence). Robinson arrived in Manchester on Tuesday to accuse British Muslim residents of that city of being “enemy combatants.” They want to “kill you, maim you and destroy you,” he told his YouTube audience of fellow far-right bigots.

You can almost hear them cheering in Raqqa. ISIS wants to drive a wedge between Muslim communities and wider Western society; it wants to pit Muslims against non-Muslims. Nor is this a secret: The group’s leaders have admitted as much in their own publications. More than two years ago, in February 2015, the ISIS online magazine, Dabiq, made clear that one of the main goals of the group’s brutal attacks in the West was to destroy the “gray zone” — of peaceful co-existence between Muslims and non-Muslims — and provoke a backlash. “The Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize and adopt the [infidel] religion … or they … [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens.”

This ISIS grand plan has always required the (perhaps unwitting) support of the group’s useful idiots in the West, the Islamophobes, whose harsh rhetoric and actions help drive marginalized and alienated Muslims into the wide open arms of the jihadists.

The purveyors of anti-Muslim hatred are, of course, unwilling to admit to the central role that they play in the radicalization process. “The terrorists couldn’t give a stuff what I tweet or write or say,” insisted Hopkins in her MailOnline column the day after the Manchester bombing. “They couldn’t care less if we stand divided or pretend to be united.”If only that were true. Forget Dabiq. Consider instead what Arie Kruglanski, a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland who studies radicalization, said after the Paris attacks in November 2015. A growing climate of Islamophobia is what ISIS is “aiming for — to provoke communities to commit actions against Muslims,” he told the Washington Post. “Then ISIS will be able to say, ‘I told you so. These are your enemies, and the enemies of Islam.’”

Another psychology professor who studies Muslim extremists, Jocelyn Bélanger of the University of Quebec in Montreal, agrees. “When people feel a loss of significance — when they are humiliated — that propels them to join a radical group,” he told the Post.
The Islamophobes see themselves as politically incorrect truth-tellers; as bold and blunt opponents of the radicals and the extremists. The reality is that they are the accomplices, the unpaid agents, of those very same radicals and extremists. Every terrorist needs a Katie Hopkins. It is one of the great ironies of our time — those who shout loudest about the threat posed by ISIS are often the biggest propagandists for ISIS.

As my colleague Murtaza Hussain has observed, it is “perverse and counterproductive to lump [the West’s Muslims] together with ISIS and blame them for the group’s actions.” To do so is to “grant the Islamic State a propaganda coup, implicitly endorsing the group’s narrative of Muslims and Westerners collectively at war with one another.”

When ISIS claims that it represents “true” Islam, or depicts Islam as a violent religion, or suggests Western Muslims owe their loyalties to the group and not to the West, the Islamophobes fall over one another to endorse each and every one of these points. Shamefully, the latter don’t pay any attention, for example, to the Muslim cab drivers who ferried survivors home from the Manchester Arena for free, or to the Muslim hospital doctors who worked through the night to treat the wounded. That there must have been young Muslim fans of Ariana Grande who also happened to be attending her concert in Manchester on Monday night when the bomb exploded is perhaps also beyond their comprehension.

The fact of the matter is that ISIS wants to sow division and discord in Western societies, and its useful idiots in the West are only too happy to help it do so. “Cohesion, tolerance — it is not what [ISIS members] want to see,” pointed out former hostage Henin back in 2015. “What they fear,” he concluded, “is unity.”

*Tommy Robinson (aka; Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon / Andrew McMaster / Paul Harris). Just who is this upstanding moral crusader?

- 2003 Convicted for drunken assault of an off-duty police officer who intervened to stop a domestic incident between Robinson and his then girlfriend. Served a 12-month prison sentence.
- 2010, Involved in a fight between supporters of Luton Town and Newport County in Luton. Robinson reportedly led the group of Luton fans, and played an integral part in starting a 100-man brawl, during which he chanted "EDL till I die".
- July 2011, Convicted of having used "threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour" on the night of the incident. He was given a 12-month community rehabilitation order and a three-year ban from attending football matches. Also sentenced to 150 hours' unpaid work, and ordered to pay £650 in costs
- September 2011, Arrested after an EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets for breach of bail conditions
- September 2011, Convicted of common assault after head-butting a fellow EDL member at a rally in Blackburn in April that year. Given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.
- October 2012, Arrested and held on the charge of having entered the U.S. illegally. Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court to using someone else's passport. Sentenced in January to 10 months imprisonment.
- 28 November 2012, Charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application. Robinson pleaded guilty to two charges in November 2013. On 23 January 2014 he was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

This is the guy that the creator of this thread venerates so much; a common thug and a conman, although I’m sure Ellis will claim it’s all the fault of the leftard judiciary, press etc. Robinson is simply an opportunist who has now gate-crashed the aftermaths of the Westminster and Manchester attacks, intruding on people’s grief, in order to spread his anti-muslim message and fuel division and hate. And he’s pleasant with it. When politely asked in Manchester for his press credentials, Robinson apparently told the requestor to “f**k off”….nice.

[Ellis_D]

Ellis..

You astonishingly ask where do you interchange Muslim with Islamic extremist...

Try reading your post 7 again which is overtly racist.

All of us find it shocking and some of us feel the Muslim community could do more to prevent extremism coming out of their rather close knit communities however I find your views outrageous and dangerous and you should be ashamed.

You speak of intelligence and I find it a great shame that an obviously intelligent person like yourself could form such views which are examples of extremism.

Right, as I don't know how to use the quoting system on here fully, I will do it this way. Put every paragraph or sentence where I have mentioned Muslim in post seven, in speech marks, then respond to it, to explain.

"I worry it will go too far, and that it will be too late to stop it. The percentage of Muslims in Britain and other European countries increases every year."

- This is fact, I could have used 'Islamic extremist' in place of Muslim, but neither I nor anyone else would have proof of that. However, there is government data to prove that there are more Muslims here every year.

"This is due to several factors: they have more children than us, they are converting people, especially in prisons, immigration, and under the context of being 'refugees'. Islam is spreading."

- Although I have not used the word Muslim there, I am talking about Muslims. And all of that is true, just do the research if for some reason you question any of it. And, again, simple percentages, more Muslims = more terrorists.

"That is the covert way they are doing it, they are also doing it with violence all across the world. The more non-Muslims they kill, the easier it will be for Muslims to take over."

Are ISIS Muslims or not? Yes, they are, they follow the scriptures more closely than the moderate Muslims. ISIS told us all in January 2016 they would send thousands of their 'soldiers' into Europe disguised as terrorists, and there would be nothing we could do about it. That is pretty covert, I'd say. Since then, there have been numerous terror attacks in Europe. The more non-Muslims are killed by ISIS (sorry if in my haste, I never used the exact terminology EVERY time and never pointed out EVERY intricate difference) the easier it will be for Muslims to take over. Fact. ISIS are Muslims. If Muslims reproduce at a much greater rate than us, if more Muslims as a percentage are in Britain every year due to immigration, refugees and conversion, if ISIS are killing more and more non-Muslims throughout Europe, then, yes, of course it will be easier for them to take over.

I then posted two passages from the Qur'an, something ALL Muslims are supposed to adhere to.

"Just two of hundreds of violent passages in the Qur'an. Clear orders to fight anyone who is not a Muslim."

- Which it is. These are orders to EVERY Muslim, not just terrorists. For actually, Islam does not state anyone who murders in the name of Islam is a terrorist, but is actually a true Muslim.

And I never mentioned Muslims anywhere else in the last bit of my post. So I ask you again, tell me what I have said there is racist?

[Ellis_D]

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

Well, no, actually, millmoor, you can't try to twist this as you usually do, because it's there in black and white what I said:

"This scumbag was known as a potential terrorist. EVERY single person on this list should be rounded up, and either jailed indefinitely or deported, simple. B0llocks to their human rights. What about the human rights of all the people who died? What about the human rights of every innocent, decent man, woman and child in this country who deserves to live a free, safe life. I would actually string them up, never mind lock them up, but locking them up or deporting them will be a start."

It's clear to anyone that from that post - and my earlier and later posts - that I believe we as a country should be locking them up or deporting them, but that I said I would actually string them up. With the obvious connotation if I were in charge of the country.

And no, I don't believe that is what is already happening. These people aren't on this list because they look a bit foreign or they have grown a beard, I know that doesn't suit YOUR narrative, but that's the truth.

Just four thousand out of three million Muslims are being monitored as potential terrorists. It's quite a small percentage, and for that reason, I'd say they aren't just monitoring people willy nilly. However, because of the Human Rights Act, and the fact people like you would scream and shout about abuses of their human rights, we are powerless to act, until we have concrete evidence. Which usually comes in the form of a terror attack. And that is too late. And that is why people want preventative measures, even if that does mean some of those 4,000 people might be innocent. Although bearing in mind 50,000 Muslims in Britain alone downloaded the ISIS terrorist handbook explaining to them how to make bombs and kill and maim as many as possible, I would suggest that 4,000 being under suspicion is far too low a figure.

What I am suggesting, and if you'd like to put it to a referendum, like your little Brexit poll that the arrogant leftists were so sure they would win, I guarantee WELL over half the country would support deporting or indefinitely imprisoning all 4,000 people on this list until we can prove they were never going to be involved in Islamic terrorism or recruiting people to be involved in Islamic extremism, or until the Islamic terrorism across the world largely comes to a halt, whichever comes first.

Millmoor, you are clearly in the naive belief that you are right, but you thought the same about Brexit and Trump. The majority of people on here believe it's actions not words that are needed, the majority side with me, just as the majority of the country would.

I know that doesn't suit your narrative, I know it hurts to think you are in the minority with your views, but that's the truth of the matter.