O/T Prince Charles Tests Positive

[Trickytreesreds]

Professor Plum...lol! Suppose it makes a change from your usual ‘professeur’ jibe.
Fair point Tricky...but you need to read the ‘small print’. A synonym is defined as ‘a word or phrase that means exactly OR nearly the same as another word or phrase’.

In post #68 you implied that communism, socialism, collectivism, Marxism and Leninism were all the same. They’re not and though you have repeatedly referred elsewhere to Corbyn as being a ‘Communist’...he’s not either.

Sure there are lots of similarities and if you were to draw a Venn diagram - not really my strongpoint - there’d be lots of overlaps just as there would - as Swale has already suggested - if you included fascism in the list.

My point is that it is a classic oversimplification on your part to try and make out that the five ‘isms’ you identified are the same, just as it would be to suggest that capitalism and socialism are incompatible when there are at least four forms of capitalism - GP can probably list more - displaying varying degrees of social responsibility.

In essense, there is not much to answer because you already did.

I quoted direct from the Collins dictionary as I knew someone would dive in head first.
Of course communism, socialism, collectivism, Marxism and Leninism are not the same. But they overlap in many ways and always start at the softer end of the scale. Even the hardest communist countries started with the socialist people power and equality slogan.
Now my point was, if the dictionary has lumped then together. Then they must ultimately be very difficult to seperate into definite classes.

As for Corbyn and you claim he isn't a communist? Think about his preachings, beliefs, desires, friends and allies.

From the same source as before.

Communism is the political belief that all people are equal and that workers should control the means of producing things.
...the ultimate triumph of communism in the world.
Synonyms: socialism, Marxism, Stalinism, collectivism More Synonyms of communism

Now seeing as comrade Corbyn cannot come out as a communist, he's playing the peoples socialist friend.
He's never done himself any favours with his anti British rants/terrorist friends/ hatred of the armed forces/anti Jewish feelings etc.
Ultimately, the population never bought it. Worst leader since 1923 FACT!!!!

[ramAnag]

Of course communism, socialism, collectivism, Marxism and Leninism are not the same.

I rest my case. The rest was just noisy repetition...stop shouting.

[ramAnag]

I must be a pedant then. Fail to see how the PoW catching the virus leads to a debate on Communism but then again...I don’t really see how you can have that debate anyway with someone who believes that the five ‘isms’ referred to are all the same.

What might be of value elsewhere, imo, is a discussion on how this right wing government has rapidly turned to a form of collectivism at the first sign of crisis.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I must be a pedant then. Fail to see how the PoW catching the virus leads to a debate on Communism but then again...I don’t really see how you can have that debate anyway with someone who believes that the five ‘isms’ referred to are all the same.

What might be of value elsewhere, imo, is a discussion on how this right wing government has rapidly turned to a form of collectivism at the first sign of crisis.

So would you rather that the right wing government had just ignored everyone's plight but kept on paying themselves and allowing businesses to go to the wall?

What the government is seeking to do is right and proper - it isn't a political issue and there is no need to try and make it one. Whichever side of the left-right-centre political wall you fall on what is being done is appropriate, although some will argue with the quantum or distribution of governmental largesse, noone can deny it is correct to react this way.

There are too many opportunists out there trying to make political capital, or financial gain, out of the pandemic. There are already scammers trying to con businesses and individuals out of the government support grants, and using the situation as another back story for phishing.

Let us not fall into the trap of trying to politicise what is a pan national battle. It does not become us

[swaledale]

So would you rather that the right wing government had just ignored everyone's plight but kept on paying themselves and allowing businesses to go to the wall?

What the government is seeking to do is right and proper - it isn't a political issue and there is no need to try and make it one. Whichever side of the left-right-centre political wall you fall on what is being done is appropriate, although some will argue with the quantum or distribution of governmental largesse, noone can deny it is correct to react this way.

There are too many opportunists out there trying to make political capital, or financial gain, out of the pandemic. There are already scammers trying to con businesses and individuals out of the government support grants, and using the situation as another back story for phishing.

Let us not fall into the trap of trying to politicise what is a pan national battle. It does not become us

Indeed its a national and global crisis, there may be questions asked as to why the health service is underresourced, why given they did a pandemic readiness test with the NHS a while ago they took no action but currently it has to be a cross political response.

[ramAnag]

So would you rather that the right wing government had just ignored everyone's plight but kept on paying themselves and allowing businesses to go to the wall?

What the government is seeking to do is right and proper - it isn't a political issue and there is no need to try and make it one. Whichever side of the left-right-centre political wall you fall on what is being done is appropriate, although some will argue with the quantum or distribution of governmental largesse, noone can deny it is correct to react this way.

There are too many opportunists out there trying to make political capital, or financial gain, out of the pandemic. There are already scammers trying to con businesses and individuals out of the government support grants, and using the situation as another back story for phishing.

Let us not fall into the trap of trying to politicise what is a pan national battle. It does not become us

Whoa there, GP. It wasn’t a criticism. Just an observation.

There is a lot for us to learn from the current situation.

The role and importance of ‘collectivism’, the importance of a properly funded health service, the crucial role that even the most ‘humble’ employees have to play in our society’s well being, the importance of planning and testing and the need for nations to work together and learn from each other are just a few of them.

No politicising there, just decency and common sense I believe.

Interestingly I heard today how, in Germany, two ‘professional’ people I know who are having to work from home, are also volunteering for to make masks as are many other Germans. Have you heard of that happening here? Me neither.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Whoa there, GP. It wasn’t a criticism. Just an observation.

There is a lot for us to learn from the current situation.

The role and importance of ‘collectivism’, the importance of a properly funded health service, the crucial role that even the most ‘humble’ employees have to play in our society’s well being, the importance of planning and testing and the need for nations to work together and learn from each other are just a few of them.

No politicising there, just decency and common sense I believe.

Interestingly I heard today how, in Germany, two ‘professional’ people I know who are having to work from home, are also volunteering for to make masks as are many other Germans. Have you heard of that happening here? Me neither.

Sort of, yes - there is the story coming out of the royal mint yesterday where staff have designed one and are heading into production now.

Sounded very like politicising to me! If you believe that your "importances" paragraph represent things that we need to learn, I am so depressed. Do you really think no-one knew this before? The only area I would question is your need for disaster planning - I'm sure that the NHS has actually done such planning, but equally sure that they cannot actually fully resource them all upfront within any sensible budget given the number of possible disaster causes ranging from a variety of possible pandemics to nuclear holocaust

[ramAnag]

Sort of, yes - there is the story coming out of the royal mint yesterday where staff have designed one and are heading into production now.

Sounded very like politicising to me! If you believe that your "importances" paragraph represent things that we need to learn, I am so depressed. Do you really think no-one knew this before? The only area I would question is your need for disaster planning - I'm sure that the NHS has actually done such planning, but equally sure that they cannot actually fully resource them all upfront within any sensible budget given the number of possible disaster causes ranging from a variety of possible pandemics to nuclear holocaust

You make a very fair point about ‘disaster planning’. It’s a little like the dilemma we face every winter. People despair when we are caught out by heavy snow but if we spent on the equipment required so it was constantly available it would have been virtually redundant for the last two years.

Having said that, there are things we are currently struggling with because of neglect by government over the last ten years.
The police were struggling before all this because of repeated cuts. Now that they have to monitor idiots who are going out unnecessarily they are struggling even more and God help us if they have to deal with social unrest.
Likewise the NHS are struggling, again because of cuts, and it’s all very well to applaud them one evening and put on a nice ‘lightshow’, but I bet they’d rather have the right protective gear.

More recently the government has, imo, been absurdly slow to react. We have experienced the privilege of weeks of seeing what is happening in far away China along with, much closer to home, Italy and Spain. We have watched the Germans and the Koreans implement their strategy of ‘test, test, test’ which appears to be fundamental in the saving of lives and we have dithered.

Three weeks ago 70,000 people gathered together at Twickenham for a rugby match. Since then the football authorities, NOT the government, have cancelled the social gatherings synonymous with football. We’ve had the handshaking shambles. The...’I’d strongly advise people not to go to pubs, clubs and theatres’ fiasco and now we’re going to all get a letter telling us ‘things are going to get worse before they get better’.
Well no sh*t Sherlock...my doctor used exactly the same phrase in conversation with me four weeks ago!

Doesn’t he realise that he has the whole of the British media to get his message across? Doesn’t he realise that while the vast majority are complying with the ‘lockdown’ those that aren’t are either too arrogant to take notice or simply can’t ‘kin read his letter?

So, am I in agreement with the steps you initially referred to as having been taken by the government. Absolutely...yes.

Am I impressed and do I have confidence in other aspects of its handling of this crisis...absolutely not.

Are we all in this together? It would be nice to think so but I’ll be a lot more convinced when those tests we so desperately need are based on health rather than wealth.

[swaledale]

Sort of, yes - there is the story coming out of the royal mint yesterday where staff have designed one and are heading into production now.

Sounded very like politicising to me! If you believe that your "importances" paragraph represent things that we need to learn, I am so depressed. Do you really think no-one knew this before? The only area I would question is your need for disaster planning - I'm sure that the NHS has actually done such planning, but equally sure that they cannot actually fully resource them all upfront within any sensible budget given the number of possible disaster causes ranging from a variety of possible pandemics to nuclear holocaust

No the analysis was specifically how would the NHS cope in a pandemic, there was a report with recommendations for preparation and the government ignored it.

Quite like how the government despite having pre warning chose not to do what South Korea did and test everyone with symptoms, despite having plenty of time to plan and prepare for this. There are a lot of questions to be asked at the right time on the governments strategy and why it flipped so quickly!

Funnily enough the germans seems to have managed it.

[ramAnag]

Tbf, Andy...I’ve been known to criticise the dishonest tax fiddling amongst the self employed and the ‘absurdly overpaid’ footballers before now, so your criticism doesn’t really stand up.

Not entirely sure where you’re coming from on this one.

Bankers, because of their role in the financial crisis of twelve or so years ago, and MP’s because of things like the expenses scandal and there repeated failings are obvious targets. Those who are dishonest in their tax dealings amongst the self employed and footballers who earn more in a week than many earn in a year (or five) are others who get criticised.

You’re probably right, there may be ‘millions getting away with it’, but how does that mean that I alone am identified as having a ‘hit list’ and why, just because others are ‘at it’, should those bankers and MP’s who are corrupt, selfish and/or irresponsible not be identified as such?