Why the Reedz bothers will fail.

[Killerkline]

Now I'm behind the 8 ball ( sorry )

Is the foul play?

[Killerkline]

The - that

[Killerkline]

Whoosh indeed, no need for apologies mate we've all done it.

I should stick to snooker

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I'll be the first to hold up my hand and say I supported Ray Trew and Alan Hardy for a long time, and even with the benefit of hindsight I still believe their intentions were genuine, at least until things went wrong and the relationship with the supporters soured.

However, I believe the reasons for the (ultimate) failure of Trew and Hardy are precisely what mark them out as being different from the Reedtz brothers. Trew and Hardy both made emotional, short-term decisions driven to quite an extent by the reactions of supporters on forums like this. They both had sizeable egos (not a criticism, just their nature) and they were, without doubt, swayed by short-term criticism and results. They changed strategies (and managers) many times.

The Reedtz brothers are totally different personalities. They clearly have no desire to be the "centre of the story" and have far cooler, more rational temperaments. They are analytical, patient and long-term thinkers whose approach is more scientific rather than emotional. They stay at least one step removed from the day-to-day mood swings inside and outside the club and have the good sense to stay well clear of social media forums like this where hyperbole rules and every moment is a triumph or a disaster. They also seem to have, as far as we can reasonably tell, sufficient resources to underwrite a patient, long-term approach.

Nobody can guarantee success, and as fans we will always be angered by results such as yesterday's inexcusable defeat, but after many years of Notts County FC being run like a boom/bust rollercoaster, the current calmness off the field is a relief. It means we are ONLY having to worry about results on the pitch, compared with recent years when the drama in the boardroom, the courtroom, and in Alan Hardy's bath seemed to attract even more attention than our gradual decline on the pitch.

The current owners are probably not ones to bring dramatic, overnight success, but they seem to have the right characteristics to put in place firm foundations on which we can gradually build.

Brilliant post Jackal2. The short term approach is one that has led us to where we are today and nearly sent the club out of existence. Since the 2011/12 season where we finished 7th in League One over the past nine seasons it has been a gradual decline apart from the great escape and the Nolan play off season culminating in our relegation out of the football league in the 2018/19 season. That's a big decline in 7 years. The past couple of years for the Reedz brother's for me has been about stopping the slide and laying foundations to take the club 'onwards and upwards' as someone once said. Last season was an excellent achievement to reach the play-offs in Year 1. Heading towards the end of Year 2 the club is in a far better position off the field and behind the scenes than it was two years ago.

I personally think we are very lucky to have owners that we do. As someone else mentioned on this thread look at the others that were floating around at the time they brought the club. Also to add to that since Derek Pavis sold the club there is the Storrie/Scardino, The Supporters Trust and Munto Finance sandwich. The first and last were both boom and bust visionaries that ended with the club perilously close to the brink. The supporters trust had no money but it too had good intentions for the fans to work together for the common good at the start, but for me that deteriorated and the common goal of working together got lost and again put the club on the brink.

Obviously all these reins can all be looked back on in hindsight but from what we have seen from the Reedz brothers so far they are a breath of fresh air for this club after all what has gone off since Derek Pavis sold the club some 20 years ago.

In terms of the football style then it's time for fans to get on board with the possession based game because that's the future. The thread "Meet the new boss same as the old boss" is a good title and whilst not to be taken literally there should be some degree of truth in it, because the core principles should be the same whoever is manager / head coach because as I've said many times on here the club needs a general style, identity and philosophy. Otherwise you end up like we did in the past whereby every time there is a managerial change it's completely the opposite to the one before and that's where you end up with the wrong type of players and bloated squads. So it's about evolution when a managerial change is made not revolution as in the past which contributed to our downfall.

The days' of playing direct and hoofball are numbered even at this level and bring it on I say because we have seen some absolute dross at Meadow Lane in the past 20 years mascaraed as football. Younger players are being brought up to play and pass out from the back at an early age and this has come about from the Spain 2010 World Cup Winning Team when English Football had to take a long hard look at itself and how far behind as a nation we were technically compared to our European counter parts.

If a possession based game is what this club identity is to be then that is what will no doubt be adopted throughout the club from the top to the bottom such that any youth players who are promoted to the first team are the right pieces of the jigsaw and fit seamlessly into the group.

In terms of the stats side this data and information assists and helps in the decision making process which it has been said and helps to paint the overall picture. To have this level of information is something that should be embraced and cherished because anything that can give us an advantage over our opponents has to be a good thing. Also on the other hand it can help with teaching and learning about our own games and performances and where improvements need to be made.

No guarantees of success come in football, but in the Reedz brothers in my view they are putting in all the foundations and pieces of the jigsaw in place to maximise the chance of success which is along way from where the club has been previously at times in the past twenty years.

[Old_pie]

I'll be the first to hold up my hand and say I supported Ray Trew and Alan Hardy for a long time, and even with the benefit of hindsight I still believe their intentions were genuine, at least until things went wrong and the relationship with the supporters soured.

However, I believe the reasons for the (ultimate) failure of Trew and Hardy are precisely what mark them out as being different from the Reedtz brothers. Trew and Hardy both made emotional, short-term decisions driven to quite an extent by the reactions of supporters on forums like this. They both had sizeable egos (not a criticism, just their nature) and they were, without doubt, swayed by short-term criticism and results. They changed strategies (and managers) many times.

The Reedtz brothers are totally different personalities. They clearly have no desire to be the "centre of the story" and have far cooler, more rational temperaments. They are analytical, patient and long-term thinkers whose approach is more scientific rather than emotional. They stay at least one step removed from the day-to-day mood swings inside and outside the club and have the good sense to stay well clear of social media forums like this where hyperbole rules and every moment is a triumph or a disaster. They also seem to have, as far as we can reasonably tell, sufficient resources to underwrite a patient, long-term approach.

Nobody can guarantee success, and as fans we will always be angered by results such as yesterday's inexcusable defeat, but after many years of Notts County FC being run like a boom/bust rollercoaster, the current calmness off the field is a relief. It means we are ONLY having to worry about results on the pitch, compared with recent years when the drama in the boardroom, the courtroom, and in Alan Hardy's bath seemed to attract even more attention than our gradual decline on the pitch.

The current owners are probably not ones to bring dramatic, overnight success, but they seem to have the right characteristics to put in place firm foundations on which we can gradually build.

Both RT and AH only had pockets to fund the club for a while and for it then to continue they needed Championship money. So whilst their intentions were good in that respect the thought that they could buy success was, as you conclude, wrong. RT got bitten by the hidden Munto debts and retrospect would have been better off letting the club go into admin so he could properly fund it from a clean slate. He was then spoiled by how easy it all was with the Munto squad + Cotterill.

AH probably paid over the odds in his egotistical desire to own a local football club - after all he could never buy Liverpool. When he saw the Championship in 5 slipping out of his reach he got desperate and even more erratic.

The current owners had much in common with Ardley, get all the foundations in place, don't get over-excited, don't get overly despondent. A game of football is more that the sum of the statistics. I'm pleased to have thoughtful owners, I want to see a bit more of Martin Allen in our managers/coaches.

[bouncingoffthewalls]

Really good post Mad_Magpie, agree with everything you said.

[Biker9999]

I have brought this post up again so that all those who rubbished my comments can apologise. (I wish!)

I never replied to any of it as I was sure all I had to do was wait but did not expect things to happen this quickly.

All the comments about short term –v- long term make me smile as the truth is whilst the owners may think about long term in terms of better training facilities, club structure, getting promotion etc, in truth any manager has only about 10 games at any point to secure his job. 6-8 losses in that period almost inevitably mean he will be on his bike.

The owners stuck with Ardley for longer but if it was really a long term plan why sack him. As a manager he was hardly a failure in terms of his overall record but the fact he failed to fulfil the clubs ambitions is quite another matter. I still think his sacking shows that our owners lack clarity of purpose and understanding of football management. They held onto Ardley for too long to achieve their priority, short term goals.

My view is we will start next season with our current manager, (but only a 60-40 chance) and the current owners, but will finish it with neither of them.

[countygump]

I have brought this post up again so that all those who rubbished my comments can apologise. (I wish!)

I never replied to any of it as I was sure all I had to do was wait but did not expect things to happen this quickly.

All the comments about short term –v- long term make me smile as the truth is whilst the owners may think about long term in terms of better training facilities, club structure, getting promotion etc, in truth any manager has only about 10 games at any point to secure his job. 6-8 losses in that period almost inevitably mean he will be on his bike.

The owners stuck with Ardley for longer but if it was really a long term plan why sack him. As a manager he was hardly a failure in terms of his overall record but the fact he failed to fulfil the clubs ambitions is quite another matter. I still think his sacking shows that our owners lack clarity of purpose and understanding of football management. They held onto Ardley for too long to achieve their priority, short term goals.

My view is we will start next season with our current manager, (but only a 60-40 chance) and the current owners, but will finish it with neither of them.

There is only 'short term' in this division, getting back to the football league has to be our primary aim at the beginning of each and every season. Once that is achieved, then we can plan for long term.

[laddo]

Hold on a second that's all great but you wanted Ardley sacked way before he was. You hoped for a 5-0 defeat (we drew 2-2 in what turned out to be his last game) would result in his sacking. I find your penultimate paragraph confusing and contradictory.

You think we will have new owners during next season? Bold strong prediction. Now that would be very very disappointing if that was the case.

As for the manager, not such a big prediciton, that has to be odds on , we are Notts County FC after all

[Ayeayeskipper]

Hold on a second that's all great but you wanted Ardley sacked way before he was. You hoped for a 5-0 defeat (we drew 2-2 in what turned out to be his last game) would result in his sacking. I find your penultimate paragraph confusing and contradictory.

You think we will have new owners during next season? Bold strong prediction. Now that would be very very disappointing if that was the case.

As for the manager, not such a big prediciton, that has to be odds on , we are Notts County FC after all

I'd imagine that it wouldn't take a lot to confuse you Thicko. Anyway, what about this poll you promised us?