O/T:- Men in women's teams

[Mapperleypie]

I never said it was by the way.

Anyway, is there anything wrong with having an opinion? As far as I can tell, we've just been discussing what is a rather pressing and current issue. Nobody has been offensive, nobody has fallen out. Pretty good form for this board if you ask me.

It really isn’t a pressing issue at all.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

It really isn’t a pressing issue at all.

It depends on your view point. For a woman who is competing against someone born male, it is. What you're saying is it's not pressing to you

[applepie2]

It depends on your view point. For a woman who is competing against someone born male, it is. What you're saying is it's not pressing to you

Correct. What Mapperleypie is saying is that the integrity of women's sport doesn't matter to him.

[slack_pie]

It really isn’t a pressing issue at all.

There are two issues discussed in this thread. The first one is whether trans women should be allowed to compete against biological women. This is a fringe issue in that it affects very few people directly, at least at the moment, although the repercussions for women's sport in the future are hard to measure.

The second issue is the wider one of whether we should legally categorise people based on objective biology or subjective feelings. That, to me, is a huge issue that affects everyone. Both are worth discussing.

[Mapperleypie]

Correct. What Mapperleypie is saying is that the integrity of women's sport doesn't matter to him.

Haha.

I said it’s not a pressing issue. Of all the ills in the world I would say someone who identifies as a woman competing in women’s sport is a fringe issue at best.

It’s a topic that seems to seem to enrage a certain type of individual so certain websites/‘news’ channels have weaponised it to drive up engagement in the hope of increased advertising revenue.

[The Dug Out]

This just about sums up the woke- world that has been imposed on the majority:
My name is Lesley Pickup. I am employed as a Selling Partner on the first floor in your Cheadle Branch.

For the past 20 years, I have been involved with female victims from all faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and backgrounds who have been subjected to domestic and ***ual violence and psychological abuse by men.

They have lived and continue to live terrible lives, in constant fear of violence both physical and emotional. They have no autonomy at home, no voice, no self-worth, accorded no respect, and all too often ignored by a Police Force and CPS who should be there to protect them.

For many their only escape from such a life is work. Work offers them physical and emotional safety. It is a place where they are treated with respect, where they are treated as human beings and where their opinions matter. Where people listen to them. Where they can, for a few hours in the day, live a NORMAL life and where they are free from a world where they are expected at all times to be subservient to needs of men or face severe consequences.

With a predominantly female work force the law of averages states that there will be such victims employed by John Lewis. John Lewis may never know who they are for many will not want to contaminate their only safe, normal space with the life they live outside. If no such ladies work for John Lewis, then it is probably the only company in the UK.

Work offers the only time in their lives where they should have guaranteed female-only safe spaces free from the demands of men regardless of who those men claim to be.

Sadly, I have found this no longer to be the case for the female employees of John Lewis, where without negotiation, unilaterally, arbitrarily and WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT or any say in the matter whatsoever, they are now expected to be completely and without question subservient to the needs of their male colleagues.

Married, male colleagues, with full male genitalia, not transitioning to female, who live as husbands at home but choose to dress as women at work, assuming female names, and expecting full access to toilettes and locker rooms which were previously female-only employee safe spaces. This regardless and without one moment of thought or consideration for any negative effects and consequences on their female colleagues.

Female colleagues who I know to be triggered, caused anxiety and mental distress by these men’s presence in previously safe female spaces.

Female colleagues who live in fear of dismissal if they speak out. So just like home they put up and shut up and acquiesce to the demands of men.

Their oppressive home lives being replicated at work.
Just like home they don’t matter because JOHN LEWIS has never sought their INPUT or CONSENT for this intrusion into their safe spaces.

Nor has JOHN LEWIS ever sought the CONSENT of its female employees whose faith forbids them from being in such close intimate spaces with men who they are not related to or married to. It’s one thing being on the shop floor surrounded by customers and colleagues its quite another to be in a locker room or toilette.

Likewise, JOHN LEWIS does not inform nor seek the CONSENT of the parents and carers of young female work experience students below 18 YOA to permit their daughters to be in female-safe spaces with men with full male genitalia. I can find no written available safeguarding policy acknowledging John Lewis’s duty of care to safeguard and promote the welfare of these young female students, or any students for that matter. There is no commitment to ensure safeguarding practises reflect statutory responsibilities, government guidance and are in line with Ofsted requirements. A Policy which should recognise that the welfare of young female students is paramount in all circumstances which includes female safe spaces.

Parents, carers, female employees of all faiths and none may have freely give their CONSENT for this. They may have no problem with men in their safe spaces. But John Lewis doesn’t know because it has never asked. Opting instead to impose an unnegotiated policy, unilaterally and arbitrarily upon its female employees with no knowledge of their back story nor regard or concern for the consequences for their safety and mental health. At the moment it’s all about the men who identify as women, whether transitioning or NOT.
Dismissively, John Lewis state female employees can use the disabled toilette and be provided with a small locker for a purse and car keys away from the female changing rooms. Nowhere to hang their coats up or deposit wet umbrellas etc and only the disabled loo to change in which quite rightly they can only use after their disabled colleagues. Why is it that your female employees have to change their behaviour to concede to the demands of their male colleagues? You instruct them to discuss this matter with their manager. Managers who have no authority and dare not challenge the company line.

John Lewis, you just don’t get it. Victims don’t want to tell their manager. They don’t want to contaminate the only space where they once felt normal and safe. They don’t want to draw attention to themselves or have to admit to another and themselves about their awful home lives. They don’t want their colleagues noticing or discussing that they behave differently from everyone else, whilst waiting in the corridor to use the disabled loo. Respectfully your managers are not qualified to discuss such matters with women.
We are told it’s in your terms and conditions. It was not in my contract of employment which was the only document I was party to pre-employment.

This policy has no benefit to the profitability of John Lewis.

I am sure if I get any response to my concerns, it will be dismissive, with name-calling and condemnation from the top table. But I don’t care. I only care about those women less fortunate than myself and that such women are safe at work and treated with respect and understanding.

I am grateful to be in a financial position where I no longer have to put up with a situation that causes me distress to witness. I have no mortgage and an excellent final salary pension.

Sadly, the majority of your female employees are not in such a fortunate position, instead being forced to put up and shut up to pay the rent. They are not happy about this situation. You can see it on their faces if you care to look.

Therefore, please accept my resignation from John Lewis with effect from Wednesday 07 August 2024. I will not be serving out my two weeks’ notice as I am not prepared to set foot in an establishment, either as an employee or a customer, that chooses to treat its female members of staff with such disregard when it comes to their safe spaces, placing the demands of men above all else.

Shopping in JL used to be a great, fun experience. A fabulous distraction from the trials and stresses of everyday life. It was pure theatre. What your female employees didn’t know about the goods you sell wasn’t worth knowing.

Not anymore. It’s now full of anxiety, controversy, and abuse of your female staff.

[Mark_Ross]

Sorry,yes i did mean puberty blockers, it was my mistake.It is an abomination to give young people these *** changing drugs & i have experieced what this does in a family circle, people who advocate it should be in prison along with those minority wierdos that support this abuse. I am all for advances in medical practice, mainly to get rid of deadly diseases, that is what mankind is excelling at, long may it continue, this other stuff is the whims of a few.

There is always a cutting-edge or hinterland to science. To make progress we have to move into potentially dangerous areas. Common place life-saving treatments of today originated with way-out-there ideas which would inevitably of involved iatrogenic (illness caused by the attempted treatment) issues.

[applepie2]

Haha.

I said it’s not a pressing issue. Of all the ills in the world I would say someone who identifies as a woman competing in women’s sport is a fringe issue at best.

It’s a topic that seems to seem to enrage a certain type of individual so certain websites/‘news’ channels have weaponised it to drive up engagement in the hope of increased advertising revenue.

Thanks for the clarification. Again, I think slack_pie has expressed my opinion better than I can myself, on the main issues.

I don't think that women's rights being ignored by much of the media is anything other than misogyny. Men taking things from women is as old as history, but now we're being told that we must accept it out of kindness to men. When your own family is impacted by an injustice or by a new secular movement with cult-like aspects it seems rather more pressing than if you are personally unaffected.

[andy6025]

I’m not expert on this topic. I don’t know much of anything about all the processes discussed for transitioning, or things about bone structure and various hormonal chemical that make your nads drop, or anything else. Like Mapperly, it’s not an issue I stay awake at night struggling over. But I do recognize it presents at least a little bit of an interesting problem.

Rather than classify sports as men’s or women’s, could they not just classify them as XX’s and XY’s? You can identify as whatever *** you like and I’ll be happy to salute whatever flag you run up the pole, but XX’s compete with each other and XYs compete with each other.

Don’t even have to mention the words men or women. You can even call yourself both or neither for all the bother it would cause me.

Would that solve the difficulty or am I still missing something?

[slack_pie]

I’m not expert on this topic. I don’t know much of anything about all the processes discussed for transitioning, or things about bone structure and various hormonal chemical that make your nads drop, or anything else. Like Mapperly, it’s not an issue I stay awake at night struggling over. But I do recognize it presents at least a little bit of an interesting problem.

Rather than classify sports as men’s or women’s, could they not just classify them as XX’s and XY’s? You can identify as whatever *** you like and I’ll be happy to salute whatever flag you run up the pole, but XX’s compete with each other and XYs compete with each other.

Don’t even have to mention the words men or women. You can even call yourself both or neither for all the bother it would cause me.

Would that solve the difficulty or am I still missing something?

Isn't that just a semantic change? I don't see what's wrong with using men or women, given that in the vast majority of cases, people are clearly one or the other.