OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

The point, or one of them that you, and more particularly TTR choose to overlook, is quite how desperate people have to be to up sticks, leave their family and cross busy shipping lanes (the Mediterranean and the Channel) in sub standard vessels.

I do not overlook that point, I very specifically ignore it. Economic migrants are not wanted (unless invited) and these people actually make it far more difficult for genuine asylum seekers to gain traction and support. Those seeking personal betterment harden the hearts of the host populations against those in genuine need.

As I think I have said before, to your horror and disapproval, I do not care if these nomadic scroungers do end up at the bottom of the channel when trying to illegally enter the country. If they have a good case for asylum they do not need to use illegal methods

[ramAnag]

I do not overlook that point, I very specifically ignore it. Economic migrants are not wanted (unless invited) and these people actually make it far more difficult for genuine asylum seekers to gain traction and support. Those seeking personal betterment harden the hearts of the host populations against those in genuine need.

As I think I have said before, to your horror and disapproval, I do not care if these nomadic scroungers do end up at the bottom of the channel when trying to illegally enter the country. If they have a good case for asylum they do not need to use illegal methods

Well there we’ll have to differ. You’ll think I’m a naive idealist...but I’d prefer a world where there is some joined up thought from World governments and leaders as regards how to deal with the dispossessed and the poor.
I know it’ll never fit with your ‘survival of the fittest’ mentality, but perhaps we’d both do well to remember that our comparative good fortune owes so much to the security of our upbringings, relative intelligence and simply being born into the ‘First World’.
Others don’t share that same good fortune/accident of birth through no fault of their own.

P.S. Isn’t the wealthiest country in the West, possibly the World, made up of ‘economic migrants’?

[Andy_Faber]

I think we’d all agree with that sentiment AF...and I’ve certainly used it in both a classroom and a whole school situation. It’s really only an extension of ‘don’t **** on your own doorstep’ but you choose to apply it to immigrants.
There are, of course, badly behaved migrants, no one is denying it, but there are also plenty of equally badly behaved ‘home grown’ folk. The point, or one of them that you, and more particularly TTR choose to overlook, is quite how desperate people have to be to up sticks, leave their family and cross busy shipping lanes (the Mediterranean and the Channel) in sub standard vessels.

I'm a bit less less hard over on this than GP but there HAS to be control, and it appears that more effort is put into justifying the continuing residence of those who manage to make the trip, by various do-gooders (think Nigel Farage and then think of someone as much his opposite as possible) and lawyers with no interest in the souls involved but lots in amassing wealth, than into exercising that control.

[ramAnag]

I'm a bit less less hard over on this than GP but there HAS to be control, and it appears that more effort is put into justifying the continuing residence of those who manage to make the trip, by various do-gooders (think Nigel Farage and then think of someone as much his opposite as possible) and lawyers with no interest in the souls involved but lots in amassing wealth, than into exercising that control.

Of course there has to ‘be control’. Has anyone said otherwise? That’s exactly why I’ve spoken of ‘joined up thought from World governments and leaders’.
I don’t know the answer any more than any of us...but can we really end up uncaringly consigning people to the bottom of the seas and shrugging our shoulders at the plight of those born into less ‘favoured’ parts of the World than ourselves?

[Trickytreesreds]

P.S. Isn’t the wealthiest country in the West, possibly the World, made up of ‘economic migrants’?

Totally different and you know it.
The USA didn't even exist at the height of it.
A land (stolen from Natives) ripe for colonisation, with untold space/ riches/ resouces.
Is it easy to get in the USA now as an economic migrant?

No it bloody well isn't, as central America will testify.
Contrary to popular myths, space isn't infinate. Many countries around the world have put the shutters down, to protect what they have.
Help comes in many forms. But an open door, is not a realistic option.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well there we’ll have to differ. You’ll think I’m a naive idealist...but I’d prefer a world where there is some joined up thought from World governments and leaders as regards how to deal with the dispossessed and the poor.
I know it’ll never fit with your ‘survival of the fittest’ mentality, but perhaps we’d both do well to remember that our comparative good fortune owes so much to the security of our upbringings, relative intelligence and simply being born into the ‘First World’.
Others don’t share that same good fortune/accident of birth through no fault of their own.

P.S. Isn’t the wealthiest country in the West, possibly the World, made up of ‘economic migrants’?

As of a couple of years ago, and defining wealthiest in terms of GDP per capita, that would be Leichtenstein (false teeth) Monaco or Luxemburg then. Curiously not a place of refuge of most economic migrants who seem to stroll past these countries and aremore attracted by the UK benefit system: which may explain whey we are but 37th on the league table. The history of these three wealthiest countries do not seem littered with economic migration from poorer countries, although doubtless there have been conquests here and there along their evolution.

The next western countries on the "rich list" are, somewhat surprisingly Ireland, followed by Switzerland (banking) San Marino and Norway (oil). the top 10 is rounded out by three off shore banking havens - Isle of Man, Bermuda and the Caymans, one of which I can confirm did attract an economic migrant in the form of me. An impoverished newly qualified accountant in search of tax free salary!

I suspect you incorrectly obliquely try to refer to the USA, number 15 on the list

[ramAnag]

Help comes in many forms. But an open door, is not a realistic option.

...and where have I said it doesn’t...or that an ‘open door’ is a ‘realistic option’?

Read what I’ve said not what you want me to have said.

P.S. Clearly I bow to your superior, if rather pedantic, knowledge of wealth and riches...GP.

[swaledale]

Totally different and you know it.
The USA didn't even exist at the height of it.
A land (stolen from Natives) ripe for colonisation, with untold space/ riches/ resouces.
Is it easy to get in the USA now as an economic migrant?

No it bloody well isn't, as central America will testify.
Contrary to popular myths, space isn't infinate. Many countries around the world have put the shutters down, to protect what they have.
Help comes in many forms. But an open door, is not a realistic option.

Economic migrants, crossing open stretches of dangerous water? mm one would rather think that people would apply a bit of logic and consider why these people are desperate!

Its also a completely false point o go o about there isn't enough space, our services can't cope we don't ahve enough houses etc. etc.

If the population growth was as a result of a booming birth rate by those resident in the UK - neither Thicky or anyone else would be making a fuss about it! Its a s simple as that, its only because these are foreign migrants that these protectionist attitudes are to the fore, natural instinct maybe but actually ignoring reality.

One we ahve a declining birth rate - the population is getting older, despite technology there are not enough people to do the jobs required, plus who the **** is going to be paying the taxes to foot the bill for pensions, care, healthcare and other services as the working population dwindles?

The Uk might be an island, but as has been shown we are not able to isolate ourselves from what happens in other parts of the world, I get that parochial people don't understand this concept, however its fact people are mobile and migration whether to better themselves economically or to improve their actual chances of living ahve been going on for thousands of years and being "Canute" like and trying to slam the door shut is not going to work.

The actual answer is to have a clear route by which people can legally apply for immigration and to recognise those that are legitimately needing asylum.

We also need to understand that cutting the overseas aid budget is only to going to make things worse, and now perhaps being rather more proactive in getting vaccines to other parts of the world wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Trickytreesreds]

It's always our fault isn't it?

Germany threw hundreds of thousands of doses in the bin, whilst the EU pissed about with its political bickering.
Astra Zeneca produced at cost for everyone. But that doesn't go down well in the EU.

The UK does more than most, but it's still our fault.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...cines-overseas

The asylum comment is thr one that makes me choke on my tea.
All the way from Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/India/Pakistan/Sudan/North Africa/Middle Africa. Through country after country, refusing to apply for asylum in these terrible European countries. Yet a clear route for IMMIGRATION is needed?
Well if we are talking IMMIGRATION, there is one.
Unfortunately, 99% of them know they won't get in for that, so the asylum route is hijacked.
I'm 18/ come from Kabul/ the Talliban killed my family etc. Says the 35 year old, goat herder from Islamabad.
ID is tossed away and they conduct an interview built on lies.
This makes genuine asylum seekers suffer. The noted absense of women/children/old/infirm, is there for all to see.
Yet still we get suckered in.

https://neonnettle.com/news/13345-20...-seeker-system

[Trickytreesreds]

...and where have I said it doesn’t...or that an ‘open door’ is a ‘realistic option’?

Read what I’ve said not what you want me to have said.

P.S. Clearly I bow to your superior, if rather pedantic, knowledge of wealth and riches...GP.

What you said or sympathise with, is the illegal migrants getting onto UK soil. That in effect is supporting an open door policy.
I actually admire your sunshine and rainbows view of the world. Unfortunately, history teaches us, that being soft and easy ends up very badly in the long run.
Allow yourself to be used/manipulated, and people/governments/countries
will do so.