OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Actually I can and do question it solely because I have not seen or been exposed to it.

Now that really is a ‘fascinating observation’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Now that really is a ‘fascinating observation’.

Aha, obfuscation when you cannot challenge the view, the last refuge of a scoundrel

[Andy_Faber]

With that in mind I don’t really understand how you can sensibly question the existence of Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Sikh fundamentalism.

P.S. Andy...you do seem to specialise in shifting the goal post these days. Where have I ever suggested that fundamentalism doesn’t breed terrorism? That actually was my initial point about what seems likely to happen now in Afghanistan.

Not shifting the goalposts at all. In pointing out that fundamentalism exists in many religions, you either forgot to, or chose not to (to justify a stance you may have) enumerate the existence of such fundamentalism as spread between the beliefs mentioned. What I did was use a stat relating to something that fundamentalism manifests itself as to help you enumerate.

[ramAnag]

Not shifting the goalposts at all. In pointing out that fundamentalism exists in many religions, you either forgot to, or chose not to (to justify a stance you may have) enumerate the existence of such fundamentalism as spread between the beliefs mentioned. What I did was use a stat relating to something that fundamentalism manifests itself as to help you enumerate.

A ‘stat’ that is entirely irrelevant to my one and only suggestion...that Islam does not hold the monopoly on fundamentalism.
Not sure how offering to ‘enumerate’ will help but feel free if you think it does.

[ramAnag]

Aha, obfuscation when you cannot challenge the view, the last refuge of a scoundrel

Silly comment...but I’ve got a few minutes so I’ll play.

You said you ‘can and do question it (non Muslin fundamentalism) because I have not seen or been exposed to it.’

From what little I know of you, and I know I may be wrong, I’ll hazard a guess that you’ve never ‘seen or been exposed to’...domestic violence, poverty, rape, starvation, a nuclear explosion or Derby winning the FA Cup.
Does that really mean that in your world you ‘question them’?

[Trickytreesreds]

A ‘stat’ that is entirely irrelevant to my one and only suggestion...that Islam does not hold the monopoly on fundamentalism.
Not sure how offering to ‘enumerate’ will help but feel free if you think it does.

You are quite right RA, it doesn't
But we are talking about the middle east here. Fundamentalism is practically in the sole ownership of Islam there.
The interpretaion of Islam, varies country to country and the more conservative the regime, the more brutal it appears to be in Islams name.
Saudi, was Mohammeds birth place. The country runs Sharia law there, to the letter.
Afghanistan, runs Shariah law how the Taliban sees fit, usually extreme brutality for minimum violations.
Now countries or persons within other countries, try to manipulate other regimes to their will.
My point is that, Islam is a wild religion, as even in the UK you see the same here.
Many many, lovely Muslims, then there are Choudarys type who wants brutal sharia here.
That makes Muslims who follow Islam, wild cards.

Europe hundreds of years ago, was driven by fundamentalism.
We grew up a long time ago.

[MadAmster]

Europe hundreds of years ago, was driven by fundamentalism.
We grew up a long time ago.

Ah, yes. The good old days when religion ruled and science was the devil. Times following the fall of the Roman Empire now known as "The Dark Ages". Not too dissimilar to the Spanish Inquisition, the most substantive of the three different manifestations of the wider Catholic Inquisition along with the Roman Inquisition and Portuguese Inquisition. from 1478 to 1834 a millennium later.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Silly comment...but I’ve got a few minutes so I’ll play.

You said you ‘can and do question it (non Muslin fundamentalism) because I have not seen or been exposed to it.’

From what little I know of you, and I know I may be wrong, I’ll hazard a guess that you’ve never ‘seen or been exposed to’...domestic violence, poverty, rape, starvation, a nuclear explosion or Derby winning the FA Cup.
Does that really mean that in your world you ‘question them’?

Stupid comment

The point is that whilst most religions have a fundamentalist "tail", it occurs to me that Islamic fundamentalism tends to manifest iteslf in violence, both within the faith sects and against externals, whereas fundamentalism in other religions currently does not - unless you can prove me wrong: I am no expert on religions, extreme or otherwise.

To take a further example, Christian fundamentalism, as exemplified by the Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites etc and so on takes the form of eschewing technology and working in a community based model.

If you look back in history then you may see things like the Spanish Inquisition and the imposition of christianity in colonial Africa and so on, but I believe most religions have now moved on from these extremes - with one notable example.

In fact some of the most fundamentalist regimes in the last 100 years have not been based on religion, but rather informed by political doctrine - eg Pol Pot, Soviet regimes, Maoist China, Ceaucescu etc. One might almost say politics is the new religion

[Andy_Faber]

A ‘stat’ that is entirely irrelevant to my one and only suggestion...that Islam does not hold the monopoly on fundamentalism.
Not sure how offering to ‘enumerate’ will help but feel free if you think it does.

Which suggests you are deliberately 'obfuscating' the issue as GP suggests because you don't like the outcome, that's fair enough and we here have collectively had little success in changing hearts and minds so I guess I shouldn't get to wound up about it.

BUT, there's always a way of explaining using footy.

Substituting hooliganism for fundamentalism/terrorism and footy teams for beliefs, your statements merely offer the observation that Millwall and Burton both have their hooligan elements. True. But massively misleading. and giving Millwall a 'soft pass' and tarring Burton with a ****ty stick (to mix foul smelling metaphors) at the same time.

By enumerating the issue, and coincidentally probably using arrests as a marker, Millwall would be found to be massively more inclined to hooliganism than Burton. That's not suggesting all Millwall fans are yobs as we've seen by the occasional friendly visits here by Claw84, or that all Burton fans are saints, but it DOES allow an overall view to be taken (YES, a generalisation), and decisions to be made such as 'safe' kick-off times, policing and whether any given match is suitable for little Tommy to be taken to in safety.

Yet reading your posts on this, if you were in a position of power you would attach equal weight to the threat posed by Millwall and Burton, and going back to the originating discussion, you would attach equal weight to the threat posed by Islamic and, lets say, Buddhist fundamentalism.

Please don't apply to be head of MI5 (or a Crime Commisioner for that matter). You'd be OK as a vicar, but that's another issue and is actually part of the problem

[Andy_Faber]

To take a further example, Christian fundamentalism, as exemplified by the Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites etc and so on takes the form of eschewing technology and working in a community based model.

I DO spend a fair amount of time trying to understand religion/beliefs, and although your point is valid, there are actually marked SIMILARITIES between Christian and (non-extreme) Islamic beliefs - the obvious ones being conservative dress/minimal exposure of flesh, ostracising of those who adulterate and the highly demarcated roles of males and females. It seems to be the extremes that tip the balance, especially in respect of recognising/respecting the beliefs of others - the Amish, for instance, for the most part just scratch their heads quizzically at the antics of what they quaintly call 'The English' (ie everyone else) - we all know where Islamic fundamentalism is at.

There's an interesting (to me) concept called 'The Paradox Of Tolerance' which might be worth boning up on, and IMO Western world is currently wrestling with this concept, with Lilly Allen and rA at one end and Nigel Farage and TTR at the other (possibly with you and I pulling strings somewhere between)