O/T Democracy

[howdydoo]

The theatre we witnessed yesterday wasn’t anything to do with Boris.

If Brexit is done or a reasonable deal is agreed, it will be a result of the different approach Boris has adopted.

After 3 years someone is finally playing hardball and actually negotiating for something.

May was the disaster and most likely the main reason a democratic vote will not be honoured.


The real star yesterday was Geoffrey Cox QC

Talks sense.


Fair play to them. At least they are fighting.

[KerrAvon]

I agree that I don't see a majority government of any colour emerging whilst Brexit still spreads its ugly manure. The problem is that the split in this parliament simply reflects the split in the country, completely down the middle. The next parliament will still represent the people in the country and therefore will be equally split as this one. If Cox moans that this parliament is "dead", his new parliament will be stillborn, because nothing will have fundamentally changed with the split in the people. I don't think an election would change anything on Brexit. Same arguments with some different faces.

A referendum is fine but the result of this referendum would still have to go back through parliament for sign off wouldn't it? Where's Kerr when you need him? Kerr! KERR!!

Raging, dear heart.

1. Parliament would have to agree to hold a further referendum;
2. Parliament would have to agree upon the terms of a further referendum; and
3. Parliament would have to agree to put the result of the referendum into effect.

So that's ok

I don't agree that a GE would not alter the landscape. It depends upon whether there is an agreement between parties to collaborate. The Greens, Lib Dems and Change (or whatever they are currently called) are likely to agree not to field candidates against each other. If the Tories agreed to leave northern Labour seats to the Brexit Party, I reckon your lot will be toast.

[great_fire]

You weren't but after last night's events in parliament presumably you are now .

Since Labour have gone completely off the scale far-left bonkers then I prefer him to Labour certainly.

[ragingpup]

Raging, dear heart.

1. Parliament would have to agree to hold a further referendum;
2. Parliament would have to agree upon the terms of a further referendum; and
3. Parliament would have to agree to put the result of the referendum into effect.

So that's ok

I don't agree that a GE would not alter the landscape. It depends upon whether there is an agreement between parties to collaborate. The Greens, Lib Dems and Change (or whatever they are currently called) are likely to agree not to field candidates against each other. If the Tories agreed to leave northern Labour seats to the Brexit Party, I reckon your lot will be toast.

So parliament can agree to legislate so that the outcome of any further referendum would be more than advisory? Parliament would not be able to block it if they didn't like the outcome?

(Brexit Party already have most of the northern labour seats I think unless Boris somehow convinces them that he can satisfy their 'needs'. Depends on how much their vote is split and to what extent this can be countered by the coalition on the other side. But any which way, I can't see anything other than a minority government in any colour and the same problem lingering on)

[ragingpup]

Lol. When were you last a Labour voter Fire? Ed Milliband float yer boat? Brown? Blair?

Come on, since Blair you would not touch Labour with a barge pole and would feel the same whatever leader, left or centre left was in chargre. Don't try and kid us its all about Corbyn!

[animallittle3]

The theatre we witnessed yesterday wasn’t anything to do with Boris.

If Brexit is done or a reasonable deal is agreed, it will be a result of the different approach Boris has adopted.

After 3 years someone is finally playing hardball and actually negotiating for something.

May was the disaster and most likely the main reason a democratic vote will not be honoured.


The real star yesterday was Geoffrey Cox QC

Talks sense.


Fair play to them. At least they are fighting.

It's generally a good idea to play hardball if you have a majority government .

There's very little evidence that Johnson is negotiating anything of substance with the EU .

May was a disaster on many levels but at least there was a deal , a bad one maybe but a deal none the less .

The biggest beneficiaries amongst the historic tory voter could possibly be the Lib Dems and we all know how they stand on this issue .

If ALL or NOTHING is the Johnson way then NOTHING looks a very good bet to me and we will remain in the EU .

Only my opinion mind .

[WanChaiMiller]

Interesting John never knew that which means we don't have to go along with the result of it. Why has this not been mentioned in the h of c?

It was mentioned in the summing up of this case. The referendum was advisory but all parties agreed they would implement the outcome.

[KerrAvon]

So parliament can agree to legislate so that the outcome of any further referendum would be more than advisory? Parliament would not be able to block it if they didn't like the outcome?

(Brexit Party already have most of the northern labour seats I think unless Boris somehow convinces them that he can satisfy their 'needs'. Depends on how much their vote is split and to what extent this can be countered by the coalition on the other side. But any which way, I can't see anything other than a minority government in any colour and the same problem lingering on)

Sorry, I posted in a hurry and was not clear.

After the referendum, Parliament would have to agree to implement the outcome.

It is impossible in law for a referendum to be anything more than advisory. That's because of the doctrine of the legislative supremacy of Parliament; one Parliament cannot bind another, not least because Parliament can repeal any law that it chooses to. In other words, if Parliament did vote to make the outcome of a referendum binding it could then simply repeal the law rather than abide by it.

[animallittle3]

So parliament can agree to legislate so that the outcome of any further referendum would be more than advisory? Parliament would not be able to block it if they didn't like the outcome?

(Brexit Party already have most of the northern labour seats I think unless Boris somehow convinces them that he can satisfy their 'needs'. Depends on how much their vote is split and to what extent this can be countered by the coalition on the other side. But any which way, I can't see anything other than a minority government in any colour and the same problem lingering on)

The Labour Party are on the brink of a GE election humiliation raging , I think it's pretty clear that's the most likely outcome .

The Barnsley chair of the Labour Party said as much on R4 the other morning , thrown under a bus , forgotten and not relevant were his words , if you'd tuned in halfway through the interview you'd have laid good money he was talking about the tories , unfortunately he wasn't .

He fell short of predicting that ex miners would vote for Johnson but Farage seemed better on the conscience .

The younger voters would possibly vote Lib Dem , Labour would do well get to get third he said .

Unprecedented but Corbyn as I've said before did get a warning at the European Elections so it is what it is .

[flourbasher]

I think you'd struggle to find anyone in the tory party who privately doesn't think Johnson is a bare faced liar never mind the opposition .

I didn't say the opposition Animal, I just said large parts of the House.
My point was that MP,s and the media are being very selective in what they class as inflammatory words