O/T Coronavirus Thread (3)

[the_idiotb_stardson]

All this endless waffle ....yourlooking in the wrong places.....asking the wrong questions.

Who are the WHO?

Which member of the Daily Briefing team has been promised a job with the WHO?



I will let you scrap it out over the minutiae of the main stream media,


I am off out in the garden.

[KerrAvon]

Wow. This is all quite a stretch. Do you at least acknowledge that Cheltenham going ahead was a bad idea?

Ignore the stuff about my doctor friend... you can't just casually dismiss the rest. Can you!?

Whether they are confirmation bias or not, can you make a case that any of them aren't factual? At least give me the chance to prove or be disproven.

As I mentioned somewhere above, I think it inevitable that there would have been some spread at Cheltenham and via the Anfield game. I am pretty certain that statistical and serological studies will be undertaken at some point in the future to try to quantify that spread. With that in hand and taking care to take account of outcome bias, it may be possible to answer your question.

But I guess it’s just easier from some to string the varmint up as opposed to troubling the judge at Fort Laramie. The court of public opinion don't need no pesky evidence, just a length of rope and a sturdy tree.

[John2]

But I guess it’s just easier from some to string the varmint up as opposed to troubling the judge at Fort Laramie. The court of public opinion don't need no pesky evidence, just a length of rope and a sturdy tree.

Come on , this is a bit pretentious and boring.

I gave some evidence to the court of public opinion, which is all I am asking any initial assessments to be based upon. I'm not saying we need to make any big picture verdicts until that evidence is available.

Please, go ahead and try to challenge the evidence presented?

You've been caught with a little double standard here in your willingness to try the Chinese government under the same circumstances.

[WanChaiMiller]

I understand the point that you are making, Wan. I just don't agree with it.

Unless you are telling me otherwise, it's a fact – acknowledged by the Chinese government- that Chinese government officials warned a doctor off in Wuhan after he tried to raise concerns about the viral illness that was emerging there. You may not agree - in which case I would be interested in your argument - but it seems to me that a government response of that type certainly cannot have helped to halt the spread of the disease and is likely to have hindered it.

I could be wrong – I am cool with that concept - in which case that would reinforce the point that I am making about criticising from the basis of facts instead of sending out the lynch mob.

We've already discussed the doctor - you came back with some nonesense Catholic Church analogy. I do disagree with you as you know; but will come back to it later.

What you are saying is picked up from news outlets and no different the objection you have of mine (or other) criticism of other governments in their handling of this crisis. And you are doing the excact same, arguing that you are right and within your rights to so do.

One rule for one it appears.

Im not defending the China government or being critical of Jonhson and his handling of the crisis btw.

[WanChaiMiller]

All this endless waffle ....yourlooking in the wrong places.....asking the wrong questions.

Who are the WHO?

Which member of the Daily Briefing team has been promised a job with the WHO?



I will let you scrap it out over the minutiae of the main stream media,


I am off out in the garden.

Ah bless. You feeling a bit left out.

[great_fire]

Given that the WHO says that Sweden has taken the right approach I would be surprised if they give any of the UK "experts" a job.

[John2]

Given that the WHO says that Sweden has taken the right approach I would be surprised if they give any of the UK "experts" a job.

Do you have a source for where the WHO have said this?

[great_fire]

Do you have a source for where the WHO have said this?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...-who-dd8fgw7d0

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-la...irus-lockdown/

[KerrAvon]

Yes, Kerr also implies that its too early for us to judge the UK govt response, but there are things we already can assess.

We know there was a Pandemic simulation in 2016 and the government has admitted that not all the report's recommendations were implemented.

We know Boris went on holiday, skipped COBRA meetings and consistently downplayed the virus at a time when we should have been preparing and stockpiling PPE.

We know that experts have been advising us that a pandemic is inevitable for some time now.

We know that despite this, front line workers are going without adequate PPE.

We know that our testing capacity has been woefully inadequate.

Whilst by fluke to have not needed them, we know the government blundered an opportunity to bulk buy ventilators and other equipment with the EU.

We know for a fact the government dragged its heels and events like Cheltenham races should not have been allowed to happen.

This is something I know for a fact - one of my closest friends is a front line doctor treating Covid patients in Cheltenham - for a period almost every new patient they were getting had gone to the races. Also, they have not had the proper PPE, they have had people volunteering to 3d print face marks, they have been given yellow plastic gowns when they ran out of the proper equipment.


I agree we can judge the Chinese government for its treatment of the whistle blowing doctor.

Can we not also judge the British government for all the things I list above Kerr? Do you dispute any of them?

Sorry, John. I had to sort out a chicken with vent gleet. In some ways it was like responding to a number of the posts on here, but it was a little more pressing.

We know there was a Pandemic simulation in 2016 and the government has admitted that not all the report's recommendations were implemented. The government ran a simulation to test the UK’s preparedness. I am in the same boat as you in that I do not know which recommendations were adopted and which were not and whether the implementation of the ‘missed’ ones would have had any bearing upon our current situation. The simulation was of a pandemic flu outbreak and the Covid19 action plan is based upon the influenza action plan.

We know Boris went on holiday, skipped COBRA meetings and consistently downplayed the virus at a time when we should have been preparing and stockpiling PPE. I know that this one is popular within the internet echo chambers that pass for discourse between Labour supporters these days, but Johnson went on holiday five days before the Chinese notified WHO of the potential issue. Are you suggesting that he should have used a crystal ball?

Your use of the word ‘skipped’ demonstrates your prejudice; I would not expect him to attend meetings at which purely technical issues would be discussed. Like you, I don’t know if he missed any meetings at which his input was required or would have had a bearing upon where we are now. In addition, I am like you in that I don’t know when we began to prepare and stockpile PPE. Unlike you, it seems, I would not expect the PM to be directly involved in that.

I agree that his comms were poor and have commented upon that several times.

We know that experts have been advising us that a pandemic is inevitable for some time now. And? See above - we know that the government ran an exercise in 2016 to test preparedness and for planning purposes.

We know that despite this, front line workers are going without adequate PPE. There have been numerous newspapers stories about this, but, like you, I don’t know the extent of the issue. Two of my colleagues have doctor children, both of whom are working on Covid wards and have not encountered issues. A third has a wife who is a radiologist who is X-Raying patients with Covid. She too reports no issues. Given the size of the task, it would be surprising and, frankly, suspicious if there hadn’t been some issues with supply.

We know that our testing capacity has been woefully inadequate. I have previously commented that we need to look closely at whether testing capacity could have been increased sooner. I think that because, like you, I don’t know the details of what was done and what could have been done.

Whilst by fluke to have not needed them, we know the government blundered an opportunity to bulk buy ventilators and other equipment with the EU And? Like you. I do not know if this had any bearing upon our situation or whether involvement would simply have tied up government resources that would have been better used elsewhere. The EU is an organisation that is so well run and efficient that it sometimes encounters problems in getting its accounts signed off.

We know for a fact the government dragged its heels and events like Cheltenham races should not have been allowed to happen. You ‘know for a fact’ that Cheltenham shouldn’t have been allowed to happen? What was the advice given to the government in relation to Cheltenham and can you show me the epidemiology behind your ‘knowledge’? And you complain about me likening your response to that of a lynch mob… My advice would be not to act like a member of one.

[sawmiller]

Interesting article


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_fb