OT Why has the Labour party sold its soul?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

So what you are saying is that being a member of the privy council means you are an angel and therefore perfect in every way?

Like I said above " Yea and we all know that being on the privy council makes you cleaner than white dont we " The first that came to mind when you made the statement was "Elliot Morley" who went to prison for the expenses scandal in 2009 and the 2nd one that came to mind was "John Profumo" which I am sure you know about him too and I am sure there will be many more if I made the effort to check.

Being a member of the privy council means sweet FA mate and you know it.

Privvy, it's another name for a toilet. A place where you will find turds.

[rolymiller]

So what you are saying is that being a member of the privy council means you are an angel and therefore perfect in every way?

Like I said above " Yea and we all know that being on the privy council makes you cleaner than white dont we " The first that came to mind when you made the statement was "Elliot Morley" who went to prison for the expenses scandal in 2009 and the 2nd one that came to mind was "John Profumo" which I am sure you know about him too and I am sure there will be many more if I made the effort to check.

Being a member of the privy council means sweet FA mate and you know it.

Come on Biglad, irrespective of what you are saying here about corbyn, surely you don't believe that the tories have no skeleton's in their cupboards: they are a pretty sleazy party themselves so there's no need to try to assume the higher moral ground on this It really aint an argument worth having.

Boris himself is a dodgy character. Although the violent argument with his girlfriend wasn't proved I wouldn't be surprised if it was right. It will only be a matter of time before he will be exposed if he is being violent to his girlfriends. Maybe that doesn't matter to you...

[ragingpup]

I think the real truth relating to the op is that whilst the labour party is trying, with enormous opposition from outside and inside the party to return to a more left wing political offer. Based on the last manifesto, this is still nothing more radical than a middling social democracy but is still a radical change after 40 odd years.

The huge change is in the nature of the working class voter, now far less left wing, or at least politically active on left /right issues than 40 years ago, but hugely motivated by leaving the EU. I personally think that these voters are hugely focused on immigration issue, and are being hugely misled that it will have any impact on their lives other than a likely hit on the economy, wages, prices and jobs. That remains to be seen.

But for Labour, for me they should continue to address the real issues affecting the UK, not the red herring that is brexit. Respect the referendum result as far as possible to leave with the best achievable deal (as promised by vote leave and the tories) but oppose no deal.

Re a Labour leader being out of touch due to his university education etc. What Labour leader has not had higher education, new or old?!

[BigLadonOS]

Come on Biglad, irrespective of what you are saying here about corbyn, surely you don't believe that the tories have no skeleton's in their cupboards: they are a pretty sleazy party themselves so there's no need to try to assume the higher moral ground on this It really aint an argument worth having.

Boris himself is a dodgy character. Although the violent argument with his girlfriend wasn't proved I wouldn't be surprised if it was right. It will only be a matter of time before he will be exposed if he is being violent to his girlfriends. Maybe that doesn't matter to you...

I agree with you mate but that was not my point.

MMM accused me of calling Corbyn racist which I did not say at all, all I said was that he was arrested at a rally for supporting a pro IRA element (which is true) and then he started spouting about the privy council and that because Corbyn is a member it must mean he is cleaner than clean and I was just pointing out to him that this is of course nonsense and should not try to make me look silly with stuff he probably knows sweet fa about.

[BigLadonOS]

I think the real truth relating to the op is that whilst the labour party is trying, with enormous opposition from outside and inside the party to return to a more left wing political offer. Based on the last manifesto, this is still nothing more radical than a middling social democracy but is still a radical change after 40 odd years.

The huge change is in the nature of the working class voter, now far less left wing, or at least politically active on left /right issues than 40 years ago, but hugely motivated by leaving the EU. I personally think that these voters are hugely focused on immigration issue, and are being hugely misled that it will have any impact on their lives other than a likely hit on the economy, wages, prices and jobs. That remains to be seen.

But for Labour, for me they should continue to address the real issues affecting the UK, not the red herring that is brexit. Respect the referendum result as far as possible to leave with the best achievable deal (as promised by vote leave and the tories) but oppose no deal.

Re a Labour leader being out of touch due to his university education etc. What Labour leader has not had higher education, new or old?!

You are still using the deal argument mate when it has clearly being proved that it was never ever promised.

[ragingpup]

You got me mixed up with someone else mate. I was just stating a fact.

Jeremy Corbyn was arrested in 1986 taking part in a protest by IRA sympathisers to “show solidarity” with accused terrorists including the Brighton bomber, a Sunday Times investigation reveals.

Corbyn joined a picket outside the Old Bailey to oppose the “show trial” of a group including Patrick Magee, who was subsequently convicted of murdering five people at the 1984 Tory party conference.

Magee was also convicted with the other defendants of planning a massive bombing campaign in London and seaside resorts.

Plus......

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn's links to a pro-IRA group were examined by police in the 1980s and early 1990s, it has emerged.

Mr Corbyn came to the attention of police after becoming involved with Red Action, an ultra-left group that expressed its "unconditional and uncritical support" for the IRA and included members of an IRA bombing team.

Patrick Hayes, a Red Action leader, and another member, Jan Taylor, were convicted of an IRA bombing campaign in England and sentenced to 30 years in jail.

Northern Ireland MP caught up in Jeremy Corbyn terror wreath-laying row. A third member, Liam Heffernan, was convicted of stealing explosives for another republican terrorist organisation, the INLA, and sentenced to 23 years.

Mr Corbyn spoke at at least three Red Action meetings between 1985 and 1992 and the group sometimes met at his then-constituency office.

Speaking to The Sunday Times, a senior police officer from the period revealed there was serious concern at the time that Mr Corbyn's links, including hosting IRA and Sinn Fein figures at the House of Commons, had allowed the IRA to become familiar with the layout and security of the building.

"He knew they (Red Action) were open supporters of terrorism and he supported them," he said. "We had no evidence that he knew they were actively involved in terrorism themselves."

Seeing as you have uncritically copy/pasted a pro Boris /anti Corbyn writer (Gilligan) in the 2nd part of your post here, taking his views as facts, maybe you'd like to examine the counter argument to these 'facts':

http://brockley.blogspot.com/2018/09...rting.html?m=1

As the writer said, he's not defending Corbyn but attacking Gilligan's use of half truths, distortions and un researched assumptions to hurl more mud at Corbyn knowing full well that much of this will stick.

[ragingpup]

You are still using the deal argument mate when it has clearly being proved that it was never ever promised.

This is on page one of the vote leave website :

“Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop... We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.”

What is that then?

[BigLadonOS]

Seeing as you have uncritically copy/pasted a pro Boris /anti Corbyn writer (Gilligan) in the 2nd part of your post here, taking his views as facts, maybe you'd like to examine the counter argument to these 'facts':

http://brockley.blogspot.com/2018/09...rting.html?m=1

As the writer said, he's not defending Corbyn but attacking Gilligan's use of half truths, distortions and un researched assumptions to hurl more mud at Corbyn knowing full well that much of this will stick.

PMSL. So your argument is a post that does not disclaim anything in the article I posted but states the writers opinion of what he thinks the writer of the article I posted meant when he wrote it!

I give in mate I rely do,

[BigLadonOS]

This is on page one of the vote leave website :

“Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop... We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.”

What is that then?

Who said it and when?

[ragingpup]

Who said it and when?

Vote leave in their primary brochure that they circulated to persuade people to vote leave, you pudding!

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html

Download the document.

I can't believe that you are not familiar with the key pledges from the campaign you are avidly supporting! Haven't you read it?!