o/t the problem with equality and diversity

[CAMiller]

Not watched it yet. But I know the kind of person you mean and I've had many meetings with similar parents down here objecting to our programme. You can't change the more exteme like this but I don't compromise and they have to take their kids elsewhere. As most colleges have to run British values programmes, they probably didn't get far so prob took their poor kids out of education. Can't do that in schools. But we can't compromise with such extreme views. If they want to like in the UK, their kids have to attend UK schools and UK schools are right to have programmes promoting acceptance and tolerance. So he would have to move to a different country.

Here's somewhere they could move to that shares their intolerance on such matters

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gay-***-pu...124016587.html

[ragingpup]

The statement I was responding to was that multiculturalism doesn't work. I'm simply pointing to a place where it undoubtedly does work in that many different people from different origins and faiths share the same part code, schools and communities. It shows that if the circumstances are right it can work. Equally, as I've conceded many times, the circumstances are not right, it doesn't work well.

Then comes the question that I'm repeatedly asking : we have some non functioning communities where some are not integrating even though they are UK nationals. What do we do about it? At least I've proposed a part solution that works long term. That local authorities work to enforce school integration for the kids of the immigrant and local communities and run the national curriculum including British values (that this school in the op is running). That is effectively what we're doing at college level. The bottom line is that the local communities have to agree to their kids being schooled there and in the national UK curriculum programme. Thrre is no opt out as I've said above.

How is that idealism as you've called it? I'm all for other ideas to help where it isn't working. I've put my neck on the line (as you have to when working in this part of education). What ideas do you propose that are realistic?

[Ellis_D]

Right, so in the eyes of the likes of John2 and Raging Pup, are all the parents who pulled their children out of education over this extremists or not extremists?

[KerrAvon]

Not watched it yet. But I know the kind of person you mean and I've had many meetings with similar parents down here objecting to our programme. You can't change the more exteme like this but I don't compromise and they have to take their kids elsewhere. As most colleges have to run British values programmes, they probably didn't get far so prob took their poor kids out of education. Can't do that in schools. But we can't compromise with such extreme views. If they want to like in the UK, their kids have to attend UK schools and UK schools are right to have programmes promoting acceptance and tolerance. So he would have to move to a different country.

That's a fascinating dynamic that you are describing in your meetings with parents. You are telling them that your viewpoint is right, whilst their version of God is telling them that it isn't. It must make for a tough decision for them.

[Exiletyke]

That's a fascinating dynamic that you are describing in your meetings with parents. You are telling them that your viewpoint is right, whilst their version of God is telling them that it isn't. It must make for a tough decision for them.

Kerr
Given the stance of these parents what would you do if the decision was yours & do you regard these dissenters as the enemy within?
Is this the same God who is telling Muslims in Brunei that gays should be stoned to death?

[ragingpup]

Right, so in the eyes of the likes of John2 and Raging Pup, are all the parents who pulled their children out of education over this extremists or not extremists?

That's absolutely not what I'm saying - that's just black and white. It will depend on your definition of extremists:

"a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action"


Their view is that they have an extreme position on their kids being exposed to other religious beliefs and some other ways of life but they are not seeking to impose their views on others and most certainly not advocating violent or illegal action.

The parents I have spoken to have been scared more than anything else, that they will lose their kids from their religion. Some have accepted our views that they need to be exposed to and tolerant towards other faiths and life choices when they have been willing to listen. Others are not willing to listen. Importantly, like any good educator, we are informing children, giving them information about a range of issues and topics that they will meet in the real world. Most parents come to see that as a good thing.

[ragingpup]

That's a fascinating dynamic that you are describing in your meetings with parents. You are telling them that your viewpoint is right, whilst their version of God is telling them that it isn't. It must make for a tough decision for them.

"Right" doesn't come into it. I'm telling them that if their kid comes to our college they will be exposed to information about British Values. If their kid comes, they don't have to agree with them, their views can be expressed and explored as part of discussion and they retain their right to believe what they want. As long as they don't express intolerant or abusive views onto other kids.

What makes you think that I'd tell them that their version of God is not right? Weird thing to conclude.

[Exiletyke]

Question rp
1 Have these parents taken their kids out of school? [Allum Rock]
2 If so is it illegal to do so?
just asking for clarification

[WanChaiMiller]

Multiculturalism does not mean integration. You dont get intergration across the same cultures. Why expect it across*race groups. We aren't all friends with everyone.

However, as I see it, the alternative to multiculturalism is 2 tier develoment. The follow on is separate develoment and persecution of certain groups. Push that to the next phase and you get versions of the group areas act that we saw in South Africa and Ireland.* We've seen the damage this causes*with sectarian and racial conflicts in Pak/Ind, Ireland, South Africa, USA, Australia, Iran/Iraq and Israel.

But, its good old European Imperialism at work where you have a dominant race with the jack boot on the throat of what they consider lesser cultures. Sad to see these views still hold on the Millers message board.*

I can see many kicking and screaming against equality. My fear is that Brexit will usher in a rise of Nationalism in the UK and across Europe. Many see Brexit as a tool to rid the UK of immigrants (albeit in some cases wrapped up in 'just the ones we want'). The next step is to shut down the voice of the loony pc middle class lefties. Not sure you can blame these lefties for your beliefs.

[Exiletyke]

Multiculturalism does not mean integration. You dont get intergration across the same cultures. Why expect it across*race groups. We aren't all friends with everyone.

However, as I see it, the alternative to multiculturalism is 2 tier develoment. The follow on is separate develoment and persecution of certain groups. Push that to the next phase and you get versions of the group areas act that we saw in South Africa and Ireland.* We've seen the damage this causes*with sectarian and racial conflicts in Pak/Ind, Ireland, South Africa, USA, Australia, Iran/Iraq and Israel.

But, its good old European Imperialism at work where you have a dominant race with the jack boot on the throat of what they consider lesser cultures. Sad to see these views still hold on the Millers message board.*

I can see many kicking and screaming against equality. My fear is that Brexit will usher in a rise of Nationalism in the UK and across Europe. Many see Brexit as a tool to rid the UK of immigrants (albeit in some cases wrapped up in 'just the ones we want'). The next step is to shut down the voice of the loony pc middle class lefties. Not sure you can blame these lefties for your beliefs.

However, as I see it, the alternative to multiculturalism is 2 tier develoment.[/quote]
How does that pan out in say Saudi Arabia?