Careless Tories!

[Andy_Faber]

Blimey rA for a top KC? I used to charge between £500 and £750 per day doing consultancy and picked u more work than I could handle and am not in the same league as a top KC!!

Also those figures aren't net to the individual, they work out of chambers and have office, support costs and tax etc. to pay. I think if I'd put the years of study in to qualify and gain experience, those rates aren't out of this world. I mean at least your getting knowledge and experience for that.

As for the cross examination, I think you miss the point, the KC isn't there in an enquiry to attack those giving evidence, more to get to the truth, such that it is and expose the weaknesses. With Hancock, the KC basically made him look foolish and Hancock's inability to give a straight answer was enough to show him up for the incompetent dimwit he undoubtedly is.

Agreed on all points, I think I'd already made some

rA I think you may miss the point that this is an enquiry ('fact' finding) not a court case (guilt or otherwise)

[Andy_Faber]

Now to create a fight before leaving the room... I don't think the handling of Covid was incompetent, and that under the unprecedented circumstances, they did a good job in managing a crisis. They made personal mistakes, but that shouldn't overshadow the good work that they did in serving the country.
RS checking out, back to football threads only.....

Iagree, and I heard a really good netball analogy that made a good argument for the failures being due to national (inc the decision makers) unpreparedness for the whole thing, basically being right at the top of a steep learner curve. That's not to say that the flaunting of COVID rules within government (and the opposition) should be ignored.

[SithHappens]

There was certainly examples of those in opposition breaking rules but in comparison with the government they don't come close.

[ramAnag]

Sorry, been out all day. It seems I am completely out of step and I accept that those such as Swale, GP and AF have far more idea of what KC’s can charge than I do.
Some points I’d still query...there’s a world of difference Swale between £500-£750 per day and £1000 per hour (around £7250 per day for starters!) and I’m not sure it would take a KC to make Hancock look foolish.
GP I wasn’t suggesting that your average CID officer could lead a Covid enquiry...just making the point that, in terms of transferable skills, the ability to ask searching questions may not justify £1000 per hour and that it can be done - well - for a great deal less.
All that apart...as I say it seems I’m in the minority and I bow to those who are infinitely more knowledgeable about such matters.
I do however continue to find it morally reprehensible that society/the taxpayer now has to pay such astronomic sums to investigate the alleged wrongdoing/mishandling that went on, in the same way that I am appalled that such disgraced individuals as Johnson and Truss can apparently charge similarly exorbitant rates to entertain others with their tales from high office.
Accuse me of naivety and idealism as much as you like and I’ve certainly been no ‘goody goody’ in my life, but I’ll follow my moral compass over theirs any time and if all this is what we now find acceptable then I fear we’re on very much the wrong path.

[Andy_Faber]

Accuse me of naivety and idealism as much as you like

Its not an accusation rA, I'm not even saying its a bad thing...

[ramAnag]

Its not an accusation rA, I'm not even saying its a bad thing...

It’s okay...I didn’t take it as a ‘put down’, AF. I’m often ‘accused’ of being idealistic and, more occasionally, of being naive. Doesn’t worry me too much.
To me the taxpayer now paying people £1000 per hour for what is likely to be at least a two year investigation into the ‘mistakes’ our ‘leaders’ initially may have made regarding the pandemic is just a case of adding insult to injury.
I think society needs to take a long hard look at how we value and reward different occupations, together with what should be the cost/punishment of possible wrongdoing and incompetence while holding public office.
It’s possibly not a view shared by many on here but I’ll live with that.

[swaledale]

Iagree, and I heard a really good netball analogy that made a good argument for the failures being due to national (inc the decision makers) unpreparedness for the whole thing, basically being right at the top of a steep learner curve. That's not to say that the flaunting of COVID rules within government (and the opposition) should be ignored.

To an extent thats true, though given there had been preparing for a pandemic exercises, the fact that none of the recommendations were adopted and the stocks of PPE allowed to expire and not be refreshed etc. etc, is incompetence. IN addition we weren't the first country affected and the wilful refusal to take lessons from what was happening elsewhere such as Italy for instance is a valid criticism.

Drawing on my experiences of working as a turnaround manager, my mantra was always that almost any basically competent person can lead/manage when things are going well, its when one is confronted by problems or issues one hasn't faced before that reveals those that can lead and manage and those that can't. I was always struck how when the going became sticky and problematical, everybody would stand back and let me get on with things and do whatever I asked - on the premise that 1. If it still turned to ****e, I'd get the blame and 2. If I turned it around then that was fine.

It was always noticeable when matters were running on an even keel, that people started questioning what I was doing and suggesting how they would do things!

Basically if you put yourself forward as a leader, then one needs to be able to handle the unexpected and difficult, unfortunately Johnson wasn't able to manage matters when things were going well, his total unsuitability as a leader was obvious years before he became PM. Now you can get away with that if you ahve competent people working for you which you take notice of, but if you value brown nosing and loyalty over competence then one is really ****ed!!

[Andy_Faber]

It’s okay...I didn’t take it as a ‘put down’, AF. I’m often ‘accused’ of being idealistic and, more occasionally, of being naive. Doesn’t worry me too much.
To me the taxpayer now paying people £1000 per hour for what is likely to be at least a two year investigation into the ‘mistakes’ our ‘leaders’ initially may have made regarding the pandemic is just a case of adding insult to injury.
I think society needs to take a long hard look at how we value and reward different occupations, together with what should be the cost/punishment of possible wrongdoing and incompetence while holding public office.
It’s possibly not a view shared by many on here but I’ll live with that.

A version of that has been proposed here by me in the past, specifically that seniors of utility/virtual monopoly public service organisations should have their ‘package’ linked to a low multiple of MP salaries. BUT as a realist I know it ain’t gonna happen. The Gravy Train simply has too much momentum

[ramAnag]

A version of that has been proposed here by me in the past, specifically that seniors of utility/virtual monopoly public service organisations should have their ‘package’ linked to a low multiple of MP salaries. BUT as a realist I know it ain’t gonna happen. The Gravy Train simply has too much momentum

Perhaps, as a realist, you’re actually complicit in making sure change ‘ain’t gonna happen’. Time to derail the ‘Gravy Train’ and that can only be done painlessly via reasoned debate...in the same way as those one time idealists overcame apartheid and won the right for women to vote. Once upon a time there’d have been a ‘realist’ chortling away in the corner saying...’that ain’t gonna happen’.

[Andy_Faber]

Perhaps, as a realist, you’re actually complicit in making sure change ‘ain’t gonna happen’. Time to derail the ‘Gravy Train’ and that can only be done painlessly via reasoned debate...in the same way as those one time idealists overcame apartheid and won the right for women to vote. Once upon a time there’d have been a ‘realist’ chortling away in the corner saying...’that ain’t gonna happen’.

Not ‘making sure’ rA. But (as discussed before) in a free-market society there will always be more people either on the train or aspiring to get on it than people trying to derail it. And that includes women and people of every colour and belief. KC’s are just on the bullet train is all.