Careless Tories!

[Geoff Parkstone]

If the taxpayer has to rescue Thames Water from insolvency then obviously that effectively renationalises it and solves the problem in terms of shareholders giving it up for nothing. Either way round the taxpayer will pay for the necessary repairs but letting it go bust first maybe gets the best deal for us.

Downside - our pension funds are probably the biggest shareholders in TW, so those with private pensions lose twice over

[Geoff Parkstone]

But don't go running away with the notion that the dividends are being handed out for no good reason to flash city guys in bowlers hats quaffing champagne and ordering new Ferraris.

There is a basic dividend cost for any equity capital that has escalated as interest rates rise, and most of the shareholders will be pension funds for normal working people. These funds need fuel to grow and keep pension projections slightly inflation proofed.

This does demonstrate the fragility of any pluralist economy - ie one that is dependent on funding from "little people" - which, however dressed up, lies at the core of UK economy. Routed through hedge funds, pensions ISA's, investment funds etc, it's sill your and my savings in use here.

These are the potential losers, unless we have the mindset to not invest in the UK economy at the moment. Which I have, whether rightly or wrongly we shall see.

[MadAmster]

But don't go running away with the notion that the dividends are being handed out for no good reason to flash city guys in bowlers hats quaffing champagne and ordering new Ferraris.

There is a basic dividend cost for any equity capital that has escalated as interest rates rise, and most of the shareholders will be pension funds for normal working people. These funds need fuel to grow and keep pension projections slightly inflation proofed.

This does demonstrate the fragility of any pluralist economy - ie one that is dependent on funding from "little people" - which, however dressed up, lies at the core of UK economy. Routed through hedge funds, pensions ISA's, investment funds etc, it's sill your and my savings in use here.

These are the potential losers, unless we have the mindset to not invest in the UK economy at the moment. Which I have, whether rightly or wrongly we shall see.

All very true but... I find it totally reprehensible that TW has spunked billions into the pockets of shareholders at a time when they really should be investing those billions into repairing the 1000s of miles of leaky piping and the issues they have which seem to require an awful lot of untreated sewage being pumped into rivers, lakes and sea by the various water companies.

IMO 100% immoral they are

[swaledale]

But don't go running away with the notion that the dividends are being handed out for no good reason to flash city guys in bowlers hats quaffing champagne and ordering new Ferraris.

There is a basic dividend cost for any equity capital that has escalated as interest rates rise, and most of the shareholders will be pension funds for normal working people. These funds need fuel to grow and keep pension projections slightly inflation proofed.

This does demonstrate the fragility of any pluralist economy - ie one that is dependent on funding from "little people" - which, however dressed up, lies at the core of UK economy. Routed through hedge funds, pensions ISA's, investment funds etc, it's sill your and my savings in use here.

These are the potential losers, unless we have the mindset to not invest in the UK economy at the moment. Which I have, whether rightly or wrongly we shall see.

Your right, up to a point, but what has happened with TW and indeed to a number of other previously publicly owned services such as care Homes for instance, is that the venture capitalists have taken over and the dividends are funded by loading the company with debt, these types of deals, similar ones did for BHS etc. Are basically ponzi schemes in all but name, they rely on ever increasing revenues to service the debt and instead of dividends being paid out of profits, they are paid from borrowing.

Vulture capitalism at its worst and unsustainable.

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh dear oh dear. Even the dumb Tories fell into the mass migration is good trap. No matter how much anyone defends it. GDP has hardly risen , yet GDP per capita has gone into free fall.
Makes for interesting reading, when you don't grade who you let in.

https://cps.org.uk/media/post/2024/m...ck-and-obrien/

[Geoff Parkstone]

Actually that report does contain a lot of sense. It's not about abolition of migration, it's about control and quality. The argument that migration enhances GDP is fallacious it is GDP per capital that matters.

This may not appeal to the soft left humanists here, but economically you cannot justify importing people who are not net GDP per capital effective/enhancing

[Andy_Faber]

Actually that report does contain a lot of sense. It's not about abolition of migration, it's about control and quality. The argument that migration enhances GDP is fallacious it is GDP per capital that matters.

This may not appeal to the soft left humanists here, but economically you cannot justify importing people who are not net GDP per capital effective/enhancing

I tried to explain GDPPC and the impact of non producers on it to one of these soft left humanists on here a few years ago and must admit I gave up as said person didn’t understand my point.

Yes that report makes sense. That’s you and I both off Swale’s Christmas card list (although I doubt he has one actually)

[Trickytreesreds]

I tried to explain GDPPC and the impact of non producers on it to one of these soft left humanists on here a few years ago and must admit I gave up as said person didn’t understand my point.

Yes that report makes sense. That’s you and I both off Swale’s Christmas card list (although I doubt he has one actually)

That is the point.
Its quality of life.
A few get very rich of cheap labour, but the waste that comes with it effects the poorest of all of us.
Wage suppression/services/health/housing.

another one bites the dust because of it.


Robert Jenrick
@RobertJenrick
·
1h
I resigned from government because I refused to be another politician who broke their promise to reduce immigration.

Three decades of mass migration have utterly failed the British public.

The costs have been covered up.

Here is the truth that needs to be told��

[ramAnag]

Actually that report does contain a lot of sense. It's not about abolition of migration, it's about control and quality. The argument that migration enhances GDP is fallacious it is GDP per capital that matters.

This may not appeal to the soft left humanists here, but economically you cannot justify importing people who are not net GDP per capital effective/enhancing

I take your point GP and accept some of the complexities you speak of. (Please remember that bit!)
However ‘economically’ we cannot ‘justify’ many things. Economically we probably cannot justify the money spent on the old, the sick and those with special needs. Economically what is the point of curing someone, or keeping them alive, if all they are going to do is retire and become a burden on society?
Fortunately…and I know I’m sounding like one of those ‘soft left humanists’…not everything is driven entirely by economics.

[Trickytreesreds]

I take your point GP and accept some of the complexities you speak of. (Please remember that bit!)
However ‘economically’ we cannot ‘justify’ many things. Economically we probably cannot justify the money spent on the old, the sick and those with special needs. Economically what is the point of curing someone, or keeping them alive, if all they are going to do is retire and become a burden on society?
Fortunately…and I know I’m sounding like one of those ‘soft left humanists’…not everything is driven entirely by economics.

Rubbish. We have an obligation to our own, as does every other country in the world.
Exactly where is the sense in flooding more and more people in for negative benefit, which ultimately makes everyone poorer?
This is a downward spiral, because as a country , we have failed to invest in our people with education and training.
It was made easier for industry to import labour and now we are paying the price.
The fact remains, not everyone that comes into the UK contributes for the better of the nation
Import so much cheap labour, they arrive with dependents and give next to nothing back, campared to what they take out.
It isn't tocket science