O/T Democracy

[rolymiller]

Agree with you Animal. That how I see it roughly. I am happy to come out of the EU but not with an ERG / Farage/Boris agenda.

I'm not sure you are right when you say the new left will duck the fight and they don't want out of it, Corbyn aint no dumpling whatever you think of him. Most serious lefties have always hated the EU.I think we could get quite a lefty brexit if corbyn was to get in with a decent majority eg one that supports workers rights/ environmental protection etc.

I would support this sort of line personally and would be surprised if you didn't with the views you hold put on here.

[KerrAvon]

Agree with you Animal. That how I see it roughly. I am happy to come out of the EU but not with an ERG / Farage/Boris agenda.

I'm not sure you are right when you say the new left will duck the fight and they don't want out of it, Corbyn aint no dumpling whatever you think of him. Most serious lefties have always hated the EU.I think we could get quite a lefty brexit if corbyn was to get in with a decent majority eg one that supports workers rights/ environmental protection etc.

I would support this sort of line personally and would be surprised if you didn't with the views you hold put on here.

Rolykins, how do you envisage that a Brexit could deliver support for workers rights/ environmental protection etc.?

Surely the issues that you have highlighted would be for the UK Parliament to determine (as they largely are at the moment) after we leave the EU? Are you suggesting that we leave the EU, but continue to be subject to laws created by it, even though we have no say in making them? Doesn’t that seem a little unwise?

[rolymiller]

Interesting , see what my learned friend thinks about your comment biglad. Mr Kerr...?

Just another thought. IF that was true it could do to work against a govt who wanted a supreme court ruling on a matter in future. Risky...

[animallittle3]

Agree with you Animal. That how I see it roughly. I am happy to come out of the EU but not with an ERG / Farage/Boris agenda. I'm not sure you are right when you say the new left will duck the fight. and they don't want out of it orbyn aint no dumpling whatever you think of him. I think we could get quite a lefty brexit if corbyn was to get in with a decent majority eg one that supports workers rights/ environmental protection etc. I would support this sort of line personally

Some of the stuff coming out of the Labour Party right now is bewildering roly .

The sentiment I agree with all day long but some of the things proposed have me scratching my head , I maybe left but I'd like to think I'm not an idiot .

Raising Eton to the ground and getting rid of private education isn't how you do it .

You invest in state schools and beat them at their own game by providing opportunity from the bottom up not the other way round .

You change society by pointing the way forward that to reach the very top actually you don't need to be privately educated or go to Oxford

If the half wits want to pay 40k a term then let em but society should judge em on merit but you have to provide the infrastructure to do that .

You change society by moving the Overton Window not by removing buildings .

I don't particularly care what anybody says but this country is class orientated but you have to change that with brains not brawn .

People are so obsessed in this country with where you came from , where you were educated and how you speak , it's fecking b@llax .

I watch Question Time every week on the beeb and the ones talking the most sense are the audience and that goes for politics I wouldn't normally align to .

[rolymiller]

I see where you are coming from Animal and fair points well made. A sort of support the under privileged and let the privileged support themselves if I have read you right.

[Shark27]

Agree with you Animal. That how I see it roughly. I am happy to come out of the EU but not with an ERG / Farage/Boris agenda.

I'm not sure you are right when you say the new left will duck the fight and they don't want out of it, Corbyn aint no dumpling whatever you think of him. Most serious lefties have always hated the EU.I think we could get quite a lefty brexit if corbyn was to get in with a decent majority eg one that supports workers rights/ environmental protection etc.

I would support this sort of line personally and would be surprised if you didn't with the views you hold put on here.

How do you expect us to come out if we couldn't do it with the EU loving Theresa May?

[rolymiller]

How do you expect us to come out if we couldn't do it with the EU loving Theresa May?

Depends how the election pans out shark..big majority for whoever = a lot of power. Personally I think it will be a hung parliament and we will be back to square one...this could go on for years...

[rolymiller]

...although the traitors are in the majority vaterland...strange when a minority calls the majority traitors...

[vaterland_miller]

I'm not sure what majority vs minority has to do with the definition the word "traitor" Rolymiller. Admittedly the problem we are discussing is caused by a minority's unwillingness to accept a clear majority decision.

Collins:
If someone is a traitor, they betray their country or a group of which they are a member by helping its enemies, especially during time of war.

Oxford:
Middle English from Old French traitour, from Latin traditor, from tradere ‘hand over’

It is difficult for the UK's representatives to negotiate with the larger, more economically powerful, EU if their colleagues have guaranteed that there can be no down-side for the EU. They have thereby HANDED OVER power to the EU who are aligned against the UK. We are told that the consequences for the UK will be very costly if we are not able to get the EU to agree to a deal. However the EU's backstop is highly unlikely to be acceptable to any British parliament and it has already been rejected 3 times by the current parliament. Under these circumstances it is clearly treason to try impede the government in their quest for a deal.

[rolymiller]

I'm not sure what majority vs minority has to do with the definition the word "traitor" Rolymiller. Admittedly the problem we are discussing is caused by a minority's unwillingness to accept a clear majority decision.

Collins:
If someone is a traitor, they betray their country or a group of which they are a member by helping its enemies, especially during time of war.

Oxford:
Middle English from Old French traitour, from Latin traditor, from tradere ‘hand over’

It is difficult for the UK's representatives to negotiate with the larger, more economically powerful, EU if their colleagues have guaranteed that there can be no down-side for the EU. They have thereby HANDED OVER power to the EU who are aligned against the UK. We are told that the consequences for the UK will be very costly if we are not able to get the EU to agree to a deal. However the EU's backstop is highly unlikely to be acceptable to any British parliament and it has already been rejected 3 times by the current parliament. Under these circumstances it is clearly treason to try impede the government in their quest for a deal.

No as I pointed out before to big lad the majority since february this year have been for remaining in the EU so you have your facts wrong. Indeed in general their has been a consistent pattern over the last 2 years where more people would vote remain than leave . Don't be in denial like Biglad...so who are being treacherous? The will of the people is to remain...and as i pointed out to biglad a quarter of the population in the last survey don't know which way to vote or are not bothered which suggests leavers do not represent the will of the british people.

Its the old story those who shout loudest -ie leavers-think they should have their own way whether they are entitled to it or not. All a bit like kids really...