O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well I wasn't expecting you to take the bait and I thought you might have better command of the English language than that, but then maybe you can explain how a white person can be racist against another white person or people?

I'm sorry, that's really a ridiculous question

Its perfectly possible for a white person to be racist against another white person, same as black on black, brown on brown. Some of the most racist people I have ever known and Indian against Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lanka etc

I honestly thought you had more intelligence than to suggest this. Skin colour and race are two totally different things.

[Trickytreesreds]

I'm sorry, that's really a ridiculous question

Its perfectly possible for a white person to be racist against another white person, same as black on black, brown on brown. Some of the most racist people I have ever known and Indian against Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lanka etc

I honestly thought you had more intelligence than to suggest this. Skin colour and race are two totally different things.

You can call someone a tw@t on facebook and nothing will happen. Introduce Welsh/Scottish/Irish/english into that comment and you will get a ban for racism.
QED

[swaledale]

I'm sorry, that's really a ridiculous question

Its perfectly possible for a white person to be racist against another white person, same as black on black, brown on brown. Some of the most racist people I have ever known and Indian against Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lanka etc

I honestly thought you had more intelligence than to suggest this. Skin colour and race are two totally different things.

Exactly, hoist by your own petard!

Because if I'd mentioned a race, then your accusation would have some substance, but I didn't! If I'm describing a bunch of people the same colour and indeed race as me in a negative way, but I haven't been racist towards them as I haven't used their race in a pejorative manner.

So you and AF are factually wrong and no doubt Thicky because although I can't read what he has posted, he has no doubt added his own *******s.

If I call you and AF thick white tw@ts, I'm not being racist, if I added a racial description (such as Irish for example assuming it applied to either of you) I would be.

Its kind of ironic, that you so desperate to have a pop at me and someone else had made the same comment to you, you'd be sneering at them for being "snowflakes" and being ultra sensitive.

Oh dear it seems in trying to be sharp and witty both you and AF have made yourselves look absolute fools.

Priceless!

[Andy_Faber]

Well I wasn't expecting you to take the bait and I thought you might have better command of the English language than that, but then maybe you can explain how a white person can be racist against another white person or people?

It’s a strange and regretably growing phenomenon Swale but it certainly exists

[Trickytreesreds]

RA, technicallly I'd agree with you regarding teachers getting jabbed.
But to just compare that wedding with the class room was ridiculous.

Do you really think a full wedding bash with no PPE- hugging/kissing/dancing, compares with a segregated classroom?

[Ram59]

I've got to agree with Ttr there RA, that was a really daft thing to say. It was 400 people freely mixing together in a hall, which happened to be in a school. That's no comparison to having a 'bubble' of 30 kids sitting at their desks, who have proven low susceptibility to the virus.

As I've said earlier, there is very little to be gained from teachers getting the vaccine. Let's say that a teacher gets vaccinated, it doesn't stop them passing it on to their family, who will then test positive, resulting in the teacher having to isolate anyway.

I agree that it will stop the teacher becoming very ill with the virus and maybe being off for some time, but this will be at the cost of a 18-64 year old vulnerable person, who is much likely to die from the disease.

So, you're saying that young fit healthy teachers in their 20s should have priority over vulnerable people in their 60s?

[ramAnag]

I've got to agree with Ttr there RA, that was a really daft thing to say. It was 400 people freely mixing together in a hall, which happened to be in a school. That's no comparison to having a 'bubble' of 30 kids sitting at their desks, who have proven low susceptibility to the virus.

As I've said earlier, there is very little to be gained from teachers getting the vaccine. Let's say that a teacher gets vaccinated, it doesn't stop them passing it on to their family, who will then test positive, resulting in the teacher having to isolate anyway.

I agree that it will stop the teacher becoming very ill with the virus and maybe being off for some time, but this will be at the cost of a 18-64 year old vulnerable person, who is much likely to die from the disease.

So, you're saying that young fit healthy teachers in their 20s should have priority over vulnerable people in their 60s?

I accept part of that criticism in para 1, Ram...however where nursery schools and early year Juniors are concerned there maybe rather more in the way of intimate contact than you might imagine.
Also 25-30 pupils in a single classroom is probably not so different, in terms of all important personal space, from 400 in a school hall.
You are of course quite right that none of my lessons compared with the activities of wedding parties.

I think you’re missing the point as far as children’s ‘low susceptibility’ to the virus is concerned. That may be true and hopefully is...however there is a big difference between ‘susceptibility’ and ability to transmit. With the new (anything but British ) variant being more transmissible we have to be extra vigilant, not least where front line workers are concerned.

As regards para 3...heaven forfend that a teacher might ‘be off for some time’...a strange priority...but, imo, steps taken to prevent teachers ‘becoming very ill’ as a direct result of their employment conditions are worth taking and I don’t recall ever suggesting that teachers should take priority over ‘vulnerable’ people. I’m simply saying that, imo, if we want to have any chance of reopening schools in March then teachers should be amongst those given priority asap.

Finally, to partially reiterate, at no time have I ever said teachers, of any description, should have priority over ‘vulnerable people in their 60’s’ and please don’t put words in my mouth. What I have said is, as a hopefully fit and well person in my mid sixties, I believe that, if schools are to reopen, the needs of teachers are greater than my own.

P.S. Yesterday GP asked me to nail my colours to the mast over another issue. I answered honestly so I’ll now ask the same of you two...teachers and other front line workers to be prioritised as far a vaccination is concerned. Yes or No?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Please define the question more clearly. Should a 20 year old healthy key worker be prioritised ahead of a 70 year old, a 60 year old with immunity problems or what? I think the current setup based on susceptibility defined by age and health is fair. Priority to NHS and care (for aged) home workers is appropriate.

Within the broadly established heirarchy I have no problem with prioritising key workers within the bands eg a teacher in 40s should be prioritised ahead of an unemployed person in the same age bracket, unless the latter has an immunity or other significant heath issue.

Of course thats not really practical as there is probably no central record of individuals roles / jobs. And even if there is some clue from hmrc records, it won't distinguish key worker from non key. In practice it would take longer to try to reprioritise than leave it as is.

But if you want a simple yes/no, I'd say no. Within more clearly defined parameters I might say yes, sort of, but doubt practicability

[Ram59]

The thing is RA, is that you've suggested and there is a general call for teachers, to be vaccinated by the middle of February, which will be immediately after the over 70s group and before the over 60s which are to be followed by the vulnerable 16-64 year olds.

You may fit and healthy and I commend your personal attitude, but this doesn't give you or anyone else the right to push more vulnerable people back in the queue for young teachers, who are statistically very unlikely to be affected.

I hope that you stay safe RA, but just because you're fit and healthy, it doesn't mean that you're safe. Our founder and president of our walking football group was your age and fit and healthy, his funeral is next Thursday. It hit us players like a ton of bricks, because you believe that it only kills the obese, BAME, those with health problems, over 80s, etc. But no, it's brought home to me and the other 'lads', that nobody is safe. RIP Phil.

So, as well meaning as your thoughts are, is a few more weeks lost education, too bigger price to pay for many lives in the over 50s and those vulnerable younger ones?

[ramAnag]

The thing is RA, is that you've suggested and there is a general call for teachers, to be vaccinated by the middle of February, which will be immediately after the over 70s group and before the over 60s which are to be followed by the vulnerable 16-64 year olds.

You may fit and healthy and I commend your personal attitude, but this doesn't give you or anyone else the right to push more vulnerable people back in the queue for young teachers, who are statistically very unlikely to be affected.

I hope that you stay safe RA, but just because you're fit and healthy, it doesn't mean that you're safe. Our founder and president of our walking football group was your age and fit and healthy, his funeral is next Thursday. It hit us players like a ton of bricks, because you believe that it only kills the obese, BAME, those with health problems, over 80s, etc. But no, it's brought home to me and the other 'lads', that nobody is safe. RIP Phil.

So, as well meaning as your thoughts are, is a few more weeks lost education, too bigger price to pay for many lives in the over 50s and those vulnerable younger ones?

Fair comment Ram. I’m genuinely sorry about your mate but I’m actually not being in any way complacent.

My life, imo, in the current circumstances has fewer risks than the average teacher, hospital worker, shop worker etc.

I kind of agree with you about ‘a few more weeks lost education’ however it’s not just that. There’s a huge economic implication of the child minding service provided by schools being shut that is perhaps only now being recognised.
That is actually the genuine driving force behind schools being opened asap. I don’t want the cost of that to be sick and dying teachers.