O/T Trussed in Leader gone

[great_fire]

The coalition with Cameron was a catastrophe for the Dems and they've never really recovered from that in my opinion .

Anybody wishing for PR is going to be disappointed in my opinion too .

We are stuck with what we have , vote for the least worst option is about as good as it gets .

With PR you do at least get a party who represents your views, because you get lots of parties, but very little gets done. We haven't got a lot done in recent years either though.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

Just think if Jeremy Corbyn was Labour leader, & Labour won a election now.
He would have been sending aid to Russia, instead of the Ukraine.
Thank God they got shut of him has Labour leader.

[great_fire]

Just think if Jeremy Corbyn was Labour leader, & Labour won a election now.
He would have been sending aid to Russia, instead of the Ukraine.
Thank God they got shut of him has Labour leader.

Doubtful. Probably would be sitting on the fence. Actually he would have been removed from power pretty quickly if he'd won, just like Truss.

[Godsend.F.C.]

You must be joking Grist , the Tories are done for , absolutely done for .
There isn't anybody in UK political history who have come back from this , one poll today has the Tories on 11% .
They've neither the time nor the talent to pull this off and things are only going to get worse with the economy going forward .
They can't even agree with themselves and nobody votes for a divided party .
They've virtually handed the next election to Labour on a plate .

I have a different theory and you won't agree either.
Inflation should peak at the end of the year and then ease early next year.
Bank of England won't increase interest rates as much as was predicted.
The pound will rise slightly and the Markets will quieten and stabalise.
The Tories will then unite rather than let Labour in. They will then brush this latest fiasco under the carpet as if it never happened.
My dad has a saying, "theres nowt so queer as folk".
All dependant on who is new Tory leader and what cuts Hunt is intending.
Get ready, can't wait till 31st October, or will they move it to November?

[animallittle3]

I have a different theory and you won't agree either.
Inflation should peak at the end of the year and then ease early next year.
Bank of England won't increase interest rates as much as was predicted.
The pound will rise slightly and the Markets will quieten and stabalise.
The Tories will then unite rather than let Labour in. They will then brush this latest fiasco under the carpet as if it never happened.
My dad has a saying, "theres nowt so queer as folk".
All dependant on who is new Tory leader and what cuts Hunt is intending.
Get ready, can't wait till 31st October, or will they move it to November?

Personally I don't think the Tories can come together such is the division and the amount of factions that exist within it .

The subject of Brexit is still ripping them apart , before 2016 it was whether they should leave or not that dividing them , today is now we've left they can't come together and agree what that looks like for the country .

The casualty list of Brexit is extraordinary , Cameron , May , Johnson didn't really get Brexit done at all and now Truss .

The right of the Tory Party hate Sunak who they see as the man who turned Johnson over plus he's seen as a high tax chancellor .
Johnson clearly has his enemies with many threatening to walk away should he be reinstated as PM , presumably to become Independents .

Mourdant may have half a chance of some unification but I don't see her passing the 100 threshold needed .

That's without mentioning what's going on in the world outside , inflation at 10.1% and not coming down any time soon , a recession if we aren't already in one , fuel bills , increase in mortgage payments , potential stagnant house prices .

It's quite a list to get on top of in two years with a divided party .

The enthusiasm to unite no matter what doesn't exist with Starmer as Labour leader as it did with Corbyn who would have thrown everything they've achieved ( if you can call it that ) on a bonfire .

There a saying in UK politics , the Tories aren't always in office but they are always in power and whilst they don't much care for the opposition benches at least under a Starmer government they can live with it .

I think the electorate are ready for change too , this happens as it did in 1997 and 2010 .

The political parties all have a shelf life .

[ragingpup]

Personally I don't think the Tories can come together such is the division and the amount of factions that exist within it .

The subject of Brexit is still ripping them apart , before 2016 it was whether they should leave or not that dividing them , today is now we've left they can't come together and agree what that looks like for the country .

The casualty list of Brexit is extraordinary , Cameron , May , Johnson didn't really get Brexit done at all and now Truss .

The right of the Tory Party hate Sunak who they see as the man who turned Johnson over plus he's seen as a high tax chancellor .
Johnson clearly has his enemies with many threatening to walk away should he be reinstated as PM , presumably to become Independents .

Mourdant may have half a chance of some unification but I don't see her passing the 100 threshold needed .

That's without mentioning what's going on in the world outside , inflation at 10.1% and not coming down any time soon , a recession if we aren't already in one , fuel bills , increase in mortgage payments , potential stagnant house prices .

It's quite a list to get on top of in two years with a divided party .

The enthusiasm to unite no matter what doesn't exist with Starmer as Labour leader as it did with Corbyn who would have thrown everything they've achieved ( if you can call it that ) on a bonfire .

There a saying in UK politics , the Tories aren't always in office but they are always in power and whilst they don't much care for the opposition benches at least under a Starmer government they can live with it .

I think the electorate are ready for change too , this happens as it did in 1997 and 2010 .

The political parties all have a shelf life .

I think recent times tells us that whilst passionate left and right party members might fight to drag politics in their direction, the mainstream staus quo has many built in protections to stop that happening. Yes, mainstream norm is perhaps centre right rather than centre left which means that labour can only really come to power by taking very centrist positions, but at least we there is just as much mainstream resistence to the extreme positions to the likes of Truss, Farage and some of the other loons discussed on here as there are to Corbyn and the like. The party members on both sides tend to be left disappointed.

Onwards. Centre right we may be but without the general acceptance that we will all have to pay more (progressive preferably but what do I know?!) for the public services and H&SC that we would all like, we will just have to swallow the service cuts coming once again our way. We gets what we deserve at the end of the day.

Go easy on us Richie!

[Redshank]

I think recent times tells us that whilst passionate left and right party members might fight to drag politics in their direction, the mainstream staus quo has many built in protections to stop that happening. Yes, mainstream norm is perhaps centre right rather than centre left which means that labour can only really come to power by taking very centrist positions, but at least we there is just as much mainstream resistence to the extreme positions to the likes of Truss, Farage and some of the other loons discussed on here as there are to Corbyn and the like. The party members on both sides tend to be left disappointed.

Onwards. Centre right we may be but without the general acceptance that we will all have to pay more (progressive preferably but what do I know?!) for the public services and H&SC that we would all like, we will just have to swallow the service cuts coming once again our way. We gets what we deserve at the end of the day.

Go easy on us Richie!

Sorry mate but the only way they could defeat Corbyn was by a constant barrage of crap in the media coupled with all the anti-semitism/racist lies. There was never any intention of an open debate on policies because they know that a lot of Corbyn's policies struck a chord with many people.

Here's an interesting watch for you. Don't dismiss it as hard left crap just watch with an open mind and then tell me he's wrong. It's an interesting story regardless...
https://novaramedia.com/2022/10/09/t...ary-stevenson/

[ragingpup]

Sorry mate but the only way they could defeat Corbyn was by a constant barrage of crap in the media coupled with all the anti-semitism/racist lies. There was never any intention of an open debate on policies because they know that a lot of Corbyn's policies struck a chord with many people.

Here's an interesting watch for you. Don't dismiss it as hard left crap just watch with an open mind and then tell me he's wrong. It's an interesting story regardless...
https://novaramedia.com/2022/10/09/t...ary-stevenson/

I'm familiar with Novara media Shank, and quite like Michael Walker. Likewise I watch some of the main output on GB News and the hard right sites.

I can't say I disagree with you on the way that the media attacked Corbyn. But at the same time, the way that the wheels came off him and his leadership soon after the 2017 high point, to the extent that those of us who supported him had little belief left in him well before the 2019 election were pretty much in despair with him and his strategists as well as the media. It's some comfort, but not much that the further rightist politicians came quite unstuck by the centrist machinary also! Shame the machinary tends to be much more centre right than centre left. And yes, I hear you animal, Sunak could be seen to be further right than many would like, but that would depend on your lens - GF and Gristy would see him as establishment centre left. For most of the UK population however, they will continue to be overall huge losers on income and health policies whilst the super wealthy continue to prosper.

[animallittle3]

Doubtful. Probably would be sitting on the fence. Actually he would have been removed from power pretty quickly if he'd won, just like Truss.

The truth is there is no Labour Party any more Fire and neither is there a Conservative Party , if there ever was at all .

Both of the major party's are made up a fractions that if they are winning elections hold together and when they aren't they fall apart until they find something that can hold them together and repeat .

In my opinion both party's are finished , done for and completely incapable of actually fixing anything of substance .

The voting system is the only thing that keeps them alive and on life support which means they aren't exactly likely to switch it off and bring in PR .

[CAMiller]

I see you got the new lad in charge now!