OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Making Brexit work is essential because you cannot move forward, or grow the country, or deliver change, or win back the trust of those who have lost faith in politics if you’re constantly focused on the arguments of the past.

Perhaps people on this forum (particularly rA) should consider the above. A prize for anyone who can attribute these words without recourse to google

Tricky?

[ramAnag]

Making Brexit work is essential because you cannot move forward, or grow the country, or deliver change, or win back the trust of those who have lost faith in politics if you’re constantly focused on the arguments of the past.

Perhaps people on this forum (particularly rA) should consider the above. A prize for anyone who can attribute these words without recourse to google

I understand your desire to move forward GP...and I understand how tiresome the Brexit argument has become.

On the other hand I cannot help but wonder...when was the last time you, professionally or personally, thought it would be a good idea to press on with the consequences of a decision that has been proved to be both flawed and damaging?

Sometimes you have to take a backwards step in order to make progress. The ‘arguments of the past’ are, unfortunately, very much the arguments of the present simply because we are only able to fully recognise the implications of those arguments/lies now.

I’d guess it was probably Keir Starmer...but then, in terms of political expediency, I think you have to acknowledge that being ‘blamed’ for prolonging the public Brexit debate probably equates to political suicide. People, including me, are utterly fed up of it and any wannabe PM has to distance themselves from being identified as someone reigniting the whole Brexit debate. Back in the real world however some form of subtle renegotiation seems highly likely imo and I don’t think we should ever forget who is to blame for the mess we find ourselves in.

[MadAmster]

Blame Cum n Bozza n Farridge, rA.

[Geoff Parkstone]

It was indeed Keir Starmer about 9 months ago. Distancing himself for sure, but also recognising that we're stuck with what we've got and noting the futility of keeping on raking over the misjudgements of the past.

It is what it is, we are stuck with it for the immediate future and a new PM at the next election isn't going to overturn things for fear of aggravating a significant proportion of his support (whoever it is elected as Brexit was cross party alliance)

Yes subtle renegotiations might happen but a move towards Norway/Canada/reentry into free trade zone (which I'd very much support) is neither subtle nor renegotiation.

So while I know when to personally call time on a busted flush, it's not really comparable as politicians don't work on the premise of what's good for the country/economy but rather on what's good for their careers.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Blame for it.....Farage for stirring it up, Johnson as the poor sod who had to put it into effect (and make personal political hay from adopting the cause) but basically the idiotic British man in the street was truly to blame

[Andy_Faber]

On the other hand I cannot help but wonder...when was the last time you, professionally or personally, thought it would be a good idea to press on with the consequences of a decision that has been proved to be both flawed and damaging?

The big thing you continue to miss or ignore is that the decision’s made, no-one with even the slimmest chance of power is pushing to reverse that decision so the ONLY constructive path is to ‘press on’

I know I’m answering GPSs question but in business YES I’ve ‘pressed on’ when a business venture has become, part way through, less lucrative than forecast, and (as with Brexit) there was no backing out. The ‘pressing on’ allowed me to complete and make the best of the venture, accept the outcome and move on to the next one with lessons learned.

[swaledale]

I understand your desire to move forward GP...and I understand how tiresome the Brexit argument has become.

On the other hand I cannot help but wonder...when was the last time you, professionally or personally, thought it would be a good idea to press on with the consequences of a decision that has been proved to be both flawed and damaging?

Sometimes you have to take a backwards step in order to make progress. The ‘arguments of the past’ are, unfortunately, very much the arguments of the present simply because we are only able to fully recognise the implications of those arguments/lies now.

I’d guess it was probably Keir Starmer...but then, in terms of political expediency, I think you have to acknowledge that being ‘blamed’ for prolonging the public Brexit debate probably equates to political suicide. People, including me, are utterly fed up of it and any wannabe PM has to distance themselves from being identified as someone reigniting the whole Brexit debate. Back in the real world however some form of subtle renegotiation seems highly likely imo and I don’t think we should ever forget who is to blame for the mess we find ourselves in.

Yet it seems over half the voters now want some form of reversal of Brexit, having seen how negatively it is impacting on the UK. That of course plus it hasn't delivered any of the benefits that were promised - migration isn't down and in fact the issue is worse as we have no return agreement, travel is more difficult and is going to cost, the NHS is on its knees, no sign of the Brexit dividend.

Also the perspective of those of us of more senior years is bound to be different from the 40's or under who can see what a **** show its been and will press for some positive changes. Whilst Starmer is avoiding Brexit to avoid the predicted attacks, realistically, a re-entry to customs union and single market must be on the agenda, there is no other way of improving the U's situation.

Given Sunak saying that NI has a unique opportunity having free access to the UK and EU markets, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Tories adopting that, indeed there are signs that the pro hard Brexit nutters in the Tory party are being disenfranchised as reality hits.

[swaledale]

The big thing you continue to miss or ignore is that the decision’s made, no-one with even the slimmest chance of power is pushing to reverse that decision so the ONLY constructive path is to ‘press on’

I know I’m answering GPSs question but in business YES I’ve ‘pressed on’ when a business venture has become, part way through, less lucrative than forecast, and (as with Brexit) there was no backing out. The ‘pressing on’ allowed me to complete and make the best of the venture, accept the outcome and move on to the next one with lessons learned.

Doubt you would have pressed on with a business venture that was clearly going to bankrupt a company! Starmer is talking about making Brexit "work", thats vague enough to mean anything, the reality is that rejoining the single market/customs union is the only realistic option and the mood within politics with both the Tories and Labour as well as it seems the majority of voters is swinging this way.

Also it is important that the failure of Brexit to deliver what was promised and that it never will, is repeated ad nauseam, this is one big con, that people need reminding about for as long as it takes for it to be understood, no matter how much the Brexiteers would like it to be forgotten.

[ramAnag]

Blame Cum n Bozza n Farridge, rA.

Indeed, MA...along with a few rich Right wing fanatics who financed the whole charade and who we should all be deeply wary of at the next election.

[ramAnag]

Blame for it.....Farage for stirring it up, Johnson as the poor sod who had to put it into effect (and make personal political hay from adopting the cause) but basically the idiotic British man in the street was truly to blame

‘Poor sod’! He stirred things up as much as Farage...as MA pointed out earlier he and his bloody battle bus were all part of his calculated risk to court popularity amongst the ‘idiotic British man in the street’ you refer to.