OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[southernram22]

not being overruled by a bunch of bureaucrats everytime we make a decision in law. also being able to say enough and no. its personal choice swale everyone had had their say by now . its time to move forwards as you realise holding a grudge kills you in the end.

[roger_ramjet]

Thats not even an argument, so your in favour of going back to medieval times and feudalism where the majority of the population relied upn the patronage of theose fotunate enough to be rich?

I take it you dont drive on roads, use airports use the NHS, schools, happy to let your home burn down, not bothered about public health etc. etc. Oh and no defence forces then? Rog you kill me with that last statement you cannot really believe that.

And no the figures are independently researched facts not from the EU, **** me you can't dismiss everything as pure propaganda, I rather think its you who need to stick to football as the real world seems to evade your consciousness!!

Read what I said Swale, not what you would like to think I said - I did not dispute the facts, I merely observed that those facts neither support an argument for a stronger economy not a cheaper cost of living. They merely point to the value of migrant labour which I have never disputed. As noted later however, you dont have to be in the EU to recruit migrant labour, from EU countries or elsewhere

[roger_ramjet]

Roger...you may be quite right in your comment about Koreans and the Japanese making up much of the *** tourism industry...I wouldn't know. Neither country is famed for having a high Muslim population though is it? So my point stands.

May be right? I've seen them by the busload being ferried into clubs in Cambodia, Thailand, Philippines etc - but I just got on with my contribution to *** tourism and minded my own business!!! I didnt suggest there were loads of Muslims in either of those countries, just "defended" western europeans in general against the allegations (with tongue in cheek). I'm also not suggesting that western europeans or americans are blameless, but observe that its rather too far away to organise weekend away days for the lads / corporate hospitality and so on - but not too far for the aforementioned nationals.

[ramAnag]

Steady RR...I said, 'I wouldn't know'. The point was made in response to Andy talking about some Muslims in Germany treating women as 'commodities'. I'm just pointing out that such behaviour is not restricted to Muslims.
Don't know what's up with everyone today. Touch of pre match tension it would seem, but no one's talking about that.

[Ram59]

Pot and kettle, I'm afraid. You've labelled me as xenophobic, despite having no foundation and I find it deeply offensive. Many times I have said about the valuable contribution from immigrants, but because I said I would like to be able to stop the less desirable ones coming in, you called me xenophobic.

[ramAnag]

Pot and kettle, I'm afraid. You've labelled me as xenophobic, despite having no foundation and I find it deeply offensive. Many times I have said about the valuable contribution from immigrants, but because I said I would like to be able to stop the less desirable ones coming in, you called me xenophobic.

Not at all sure what your 'pot and kettle' comment refers to I'm afraid.

Neither have I 'labelled' you as xenophobic although...if the cap fits...as they say.

Let's consider the facts...I was actually talking about how 'freedom of movement extended peoples' horizons' to which you immediately retorted with (#464) 'Trouble is...this includes 'convicted rapists, *** offenders and other non-desirables'.

I queried why you had to instantly describe foreigners/immigrants as being synonymous with such 'lowest common denominators' and suggested such comments and attitude could be described as xenophobic.

You then went off on one and claimed I was accusing you of 'hating foreigners' when actually 'xenophobia' means 'displaying a mistrust or fear of foreigners'. The clue is in the 'phobia' bit.

Suspect we might have a case of 'methinks he doth protest too much' here. Either way, perhaps you need to understand what a word means before being so offended by it.

[Trickytreesreds]

Not at all sure what your 'pot and kettle' comment refers to I'm afraid.

Neither have I 'labelled' you as xenophobic although...if the cap fits...as they say.

Let's consider the facts...I was actually talking about how 'freedom of movement extended peoples' horizons' to which you immediately retorted with (#464) 'Trouble is...this includes 'convicted rapists, *** offenders and other non-desirables'.

I queried why you had to instantly describe foreigners/immigrants as being synonymous with such 'lowest common denominators' and suggested such comments and attitude could be described as xenophobic.

You then went off on one and claimed I was accusing you of 'hating foreigners' when actually 'xenophobia' means 'displaying a mistrust or fear of foreigners'. The clue is in the 'phobia' bit.

Suspect we might have a case of 'methinks he doth protest too much' here. Either way, perhaps you need to understand what a word means before being so offended by it.

Ramanag, i think what he's saying is, that free movement has tied our hands quite a bit in applying common sense and justice for the population.
Free movement, does allow undesirables in and also makes it hard to boot them out. That is the truth.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...and-violent-c/

I wonder how many Brits have dies at the hands of low lifes, who have simply walked into this country because they can?
So yes, in this case I am xenophobic, I have a fear of certain foreigners and quite rightly so.
I still fail to see, why folks cannot grasp the concept of a visa? You can go to Russia/China to visit or even work on a visa. All you have to be, is a decent human being with a check able record.
If you aren't able to prove that, why should you be allowed to just walk in?
It's time even ID cards were made compulsory as well now. Needs must.

Have to rush, I'm chairing the Ku klux Klan barbecue later. xx

[ramAnag]

You could well have a point somewhere amongst that Tricky but it doesn't alter the fact that to immediately identify the concept of foreigners or migrants with 'convicted rapists and *** offenders' does suggest an inclination towards xenophobia and that is what Ram59 is moaning about.

P.S. Having a 'fear of certain foreigners' - as you describe it - isn't what I said. I'm 'kin terrified of 'certain foreigners' from Trump to Putin and every single member of ISIS for starters. That's not being xenophobic, it's just common sense. Immediately making the leap from foreigner/immigrant to *** offender or rapist, which is exactly what Ram59 did, is very different.

[Trickytreesreds]

You could well have a point somewhere amongst that Tricky but it doesn't alter the fact that to immediately identify the concept of foreigners or migrants with 'convicted rapists and *** offenders' does suggest an inclination towards xenophobia and that is what Ram59 is moaning about.

P.S. Having a 'fear of certain foreigners' - as you describe it - isn't what I said. I'm 'kin terrified of 'certain foreigners' from Trump to Putin and every single member of ISIS for starters. That's not being xenophobic, it's just common sense. Immediately making the leap from foreigner/immigrant to *** offender or rapist, which is exactly what Ram59 did, is very different.

I see what you're saying ramanag and I get it.
In my world, just one life lost any of these low lifes, that was avoidable is a high price.
The EU won't do anything though, because it brings the whole issue of free movement into question.
Sometimes a price is too high. Gimme a visa system and lives/crime will be saved or avoided.
My opinion anyway.

[southernram22]

problem with this debate arguement viewpoint is just this the vote has happened. and swale only listens to what he wants to puts his spin on it and belittles anyone who dares disagree with his views theres democracy for you,