Trees

[mistaram]

Does this make sense, I thought we'd play better than we ended up doing, giving them a good game but still losing yet we played so poor and ended up drawing

Yes we were dreadful , the only positive being Martin's goal as stopped them getting automatic .

[swaledale]

RA won’t be ‘happy if we miss out’ at all, but I’m realistic, and think our long term future will be better served by allowing the youngsters in the side another season to mature and giving Cocu a better chance to build his own side.

Considering you wrote us off in October and again in January I’m not sure you’re in any position to criticise my opinion.

There’s a lot being said about how great it is just to go up for a season or two and collect the money but it doesn’t seem to have done Stoke, Huddersfield, Bolton, Boro’, Reading or Sunderland etc much good.

I agree, we’re in a much better position now than six months ago, but the possibility of losing points hasn’t gone away, and at the end of next season I’d far rather be doing a Leeds, West Brom or Brentford than a Norwich or a Villa.

Realistic? More pessimistic. As I said 6 months ago we'd have been happy with a pt from this match! Things have turned around since which I acknowledged in previous posts.

However, your opinion is flawed - Leeds and Brentford haven't had been in the prem yet so you've no idea whether they will be better prepared, West Brom have been up and down in recent years.

By your reckoning Norwich should have made a fist of it, they have been up and down and last year bossed the championship, yet remain rooted to the foot of the prem! Mind you they spent less than a million last summer so that may be an issue! On the plus side they are self financing and do not have huge debt. However, Villa spent £100 million aren't noticeably better,much like Fulham the season before.

Sheff Utd have not spent millions but seem Ok, Brighton ditto, Bournemouth's run seems to be ending though.

The other teams you mention are just a demonstration of what happens when as is inevitable the quality of the team reduces or the ambitions of the club outstrip what can actually be achieved. Stoke were fine, but then it seemed it was thought that big expenditure would push them top half, it didn't it ruined them. Boro and Sunderland the same, though Sunderland have been chronically mismanaged for years.

Hudddersfield arguably overachieved by spending two seasons in the prem - so they didn't drop back immediately.

The variables that apply to each club are such that there is no pattern to a team succeeding - a combination of good funding, a good manager and a sound boardroom as Burnley have demonstrated would seem to be the model but its not certain. I quote them as arguably Derby should be able to compete alongside them in terms of revenue and funding, the fact that they couldn't agree a new contract with Hendrick demonstrates that they won't break their budget, they have stuck with Dyche through relegation and subsequent promotion.

So I really can't follow your logic, whatever happens Cocu (provided he stays of course!) will have to tinker with the team, though we have no idea how much money he will have to do that, though if we were promoted then it would be a hell of a lot more. Theres a number in this team that would move on anyway, unless we stay in the championship, in which case they will probably stay another season, so a major rebuild will be required even if some of the youngsters actually are good enough.

In short its a nonsense what you suggest, theres no guarantee that we will improve or even get promotion next season, theres no guarantee if we did fluke it this that we won't come straight back down. BUT, if we go up, we get increased revenue, we may even get more investment, if we have a plan, a budget and stick to it then we have half a chance and thats all we ever will have, unless some dodgy sheik buys us and invests £100s of millions.

Realistically we go up, we build sensibly, not piss the money away on players we can't afford and we have a reasonable season and survive or we come back down but millions richer and go again. The fact that we would be much better off is a given, the fact that some other clubs have wasted that income and now languish in the lower reaches of the championship does not mean its not possible to do it properly as a number of clubs have demonstrated.

[ramAnag]

Realistic? More pessimistic. As I said 6 months ago we'd have been happy with a pt from this match! Things have turned around since which I acknowledged in previous posts.

However, your opinion is flawed - Leeds and Brentford haven't had been in the prem yet so you've no idea whether they will be better prepared, West Brom have been up and down in recent years.

By your reckoning Norwich should have made a fist of it, they have been up and down and last year bossed the championship, yet remain rooted to the foot of the prem! Mind you they spent less than a million last summer so that may be an issue! On the plus side they are self financing and do not have huge debt. However, Villa spent £100 million aren't noticeably better,much like Fulham the season before.

Sheff Utd have not spent millions but seem Ok, Brighton ditto, Bournemouth's run seems to be ending though.

The other teams you mention are just a demonstration of what happens when as is inevitable the quality of the team reduces or the ambitions of the club outstrip what can actually be achieved. Stoke were fine, but then it seemed it was thought that big expenditure would push them top half, it didn't it ruined them. Boro and Sunderland the same, though Sunderland have been chronically mismanaged for years.

Hudddersfield arguably overachieved by spending two seasons in the prem - so they didn't drop back immediately.

The variables that apply to each club are such that there is no pattern to a team succeeding - a combination of good funding, a good manager and a sound boardroom as Burnley have demonstrated would seem to be the model but its not certain. I quote them as arguably Derby should be able to compete alongside them in terms of revenue and funding, the fact that they couldn't agree a new contract with Hendrick demonstrates that they won't break their budget, they have stuck with Dyche through relegation and subsequent promotion.

So I really can't follow your logic, whatever happens Cocu (provided he stays of course!) will have to tinker with the team, though we have no idea how much money he will have to do that, though if we were promoted then it would be a hell of a lot more. Theres a number in this team that would move on anyway, unless we stay in the championship, in which case they will probably stay another season, so a major rebuild will be required even if some of the youngsters actually are good enough.

In short its a nonsense what you suggest, theres no guarantee that we will improve or even get promotion next season, theres no guarantee if we did fluke it this that we won't come straight back down. BUT, if we go up, we get increased revenue, we may even get more investment, if we have a plan, a budget and stick to it then we have half a chance and thats all we ever will have, unless some dodgy sheik buys us and invests £100s of millions.

Realistically we go up, we build sensibly, not piss the money away on players we can't afford and we have a reasonable season and survive or we come back down but millions richer and go again. The fact that we would be much better off is a given, the fact that some other clubs have wasted that income and now languish in the lower reaches of the championship does not mean its not possible to do it properly as a number of clubs have demonstrated.

Not ‘nonsense’, Swale...just a difference of opinion. I prefer to build on firm foundations...you’d go for it now...but it’s wrong to say I’d be ‘happy for us to miss out’. I’d love to see us in the top division, but I’d prefer to wait than have a repeat experience of last time.

I hope, as you say, we can eventually follow the example of Burnley...or for that matter, Wolves, Crystal Palace and Southampton...but I think Bolton, Reading, Stoke, Boro’, Wigan, Swansea and Sunderland have all been in the top flight since us. One is now heading to League 2, one seems stuck in League One and a third, Wigan, may well be heading there for a second time since they left the big time. We are above all the others, which just serves to illustrate, as you’ve said and I’ve never disagreed, there are no guarantees.

[sixtiesram]

70th minute... Martin touches ball for first time

****!
Suggest you visit Whoscored.
Most shots, most aerial successes, not to mention several in our penalty area, and a goal just **** off

[Geoff Parkstone]

Nice to meet you too

[MadAmster]

Teams who pick up points when playing badly are often said to be a good side. Based on yesterday's little offering, we must be bloody excellent.

Hamer might have been slow to move for the goal. Positionally he was where he should be. If it was an error of judgment, it was the only one he made all afternoon.

The back 4 did much of their defensive work well with the exception of the backing off. Why allow players you know have a decent shot on them to proceed, unchallenged, to the edge of the box. 2nd minute Da Costa was allowed the freedom of Derby to move forward. Fortunately his shot went well over. 10 minutes later Lolley moved forward and simply picked his spot. Good shot.

Rooney had an off day and they gave him little or no time. Bird was also continually put under pressure and found it hard to play his normal game.

The midfield 3 played well and I find myself thinking they might be a tad lightweight.

Chrissy. Have you ever seen him run that much in a game? That was probably his first ever goal off his shoulder blade but who cares what it goes in off?

The team started slowly, too damned slowly IMO. We gave them room and they closed us down when we were in possession. Poor first half although we did perk up a bit in the last 10 minutes before the break.

Better 2nd half but the ball circulation was still way too slow giving them all the time in the world to close us down and/or get into position. That served only to make it hard to impossible for us to pass to a teammate without putting him under severe pressure so...... we went back to the centre halves or keeper who were then put under pressure. Dilly dallying saw us lose possession too frequently. On Wednesday at the Hawthorns we will need to move the ball much quicker. We will also need more movement off the ball to get into space to receive the ball. Bogle seems to have forgotten which way is forward and tends to stop and survey the terrain at his leisure once he received the ball. He used to get it an go, at speed. I'd like him to go back to that style of play.

Waggy's red card was correct. He went over the ball, studs up and it was clear what would happen. Not even his playacting, holding his face when there had been no contact above the shoulder didn't help and he won't be getting an Oscar nomination for that performance. For the WBA game we have 2 of our top 3 scorers banned. No pressure on Coldplay.......

Sibley was lucky to only get a yellow. I can only think the ref thought it was 2 simultaneous one legged tackles rather than a single 2 legged one........

Once they scored they changed shape to protect the lead. Something they do very well.

My thanks to Worrall (oad of rubbish) for that totally unnecessary foul which led to Chrissy's equaliser.

Basically, a point we didn't deserve but I won't be turning it down.

[ramAnag]

Good report again, MA. Bit kind to Hamer imo. Don’t blame him entirely for the goal, but I think he made other errors of judgement and his distribution was not all it should have been.

Still think a new ‘keeper is probably top of the shopping list...and greater discipline...Lawrence, Waghorn, Sibley and Lowe have all let us down in this respect recently. Amazed at Waggy...out of character stupidity.

Question is...will that point make any difference? Personally I think not. At the risk of being called ‘pessimistic’ by Swale (pessimism and realism can often be the same thing Swale...think Brexit and a second wave of Covid)...I suspect the current top six will be the final top six.

Cocu has done brilliantly to get us to where we are but, currently, I can’t see past Brentford as play off winners...all credit to them too. For a team whose natural home is League One at best they’ve done brilliantly. Wish we knew their secret.

[swaledale]

Not ‘nonsense’, Swale...just a difference of opinion. I prefer to build on firm foundations...you’d go for it now...but it’s wrong to say I’d be ‘happy for us to miss out’. I’d love to see us in the top division, but I’d prefer to wait than have a repeat experience of last time.

I hope, as you say, we can eventually follow the example of Burnley...or for that matter, Wolves, Crystal Palace and Southampton...but I think Bolton, Reading, Stoke, Boro’, Wigan, Swansea and Sunderland have all been in the top flight since us. One is now heading to League 2, one seems stuck in League One and a third, Wigan, may well be heading there for a second time since they left the big time. We are above all the others, which just serves to illustrate, as you’ve said and I’ve never disagreed, there are no guarantees.

Yes but I don't see how your opinion holds? Your approach may and I stress MAY, result in promotion next year, but then all the issues which you mention - the team being good enough to cope in the prem etc still hold good, we are unlikely to recruit players that can play a level above until we actually get promoted. So what your essentially saying is wait a year, have another season in the prem and IF we get promoted then the situation would be different than if we go up this season?

But I don't see how it would, unless like Wolves we manage to recruit an agent and someone who can fund the acquisition of players that can go on to develop and become prem quality whilst we are n the championship, whenever or if ever we do go up, we will still have to strengthen the team to survive.

[mistaram]

Good report again, MA. Bit kind to Hamer imo. Don’t blame him entirely for the goal, but I think he made other errors of judgement and his distribution was not all it should have been.

Still think a new ‘keeper is probably top of the shopping list...and greater discipline...Lawrence, Waghorn, Sibley and Lowe have all let us down in this respect recently. Amazed at Waggy...out of character stupidity.

Question is...will that point make any difference? Personally I think not. At the risk of being called ‘pessimistic’ by Swale (pessimism and realism can often be the same thing Swale...think Brexit and a second wave of Covid)...I suspect the current top six will be the final top six.

Cocu has done brilliantly to get us to where we are but, currently, I can’t see past Brentford as play off winners...all credit to them too. For a team whose natural home is League One at best they’ve done brilliantly. Wish we knew their secret.

RA great summing up , Brentford get their success from scouting abroad they have been doing it for a while now. Go some excellent players plus they will gamble on the best players from the lower leagues over here . For example Watkins from Exeter remember our fans begging for us to sign him . But I'm sticking with WBA Leeds Cardiff to go up

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just to be different: Leeds Brentford auto, Forest playoffs. WBA slip slide starting next week 🤔. Forest well equipped for playoffs - solid defence, good manager, a sort of latter day 1-0 to the Arse-enal type of team