O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

You might want to read more than the 1st part of my sentence before quoting a response, attention to detail young man.
Anyway, hopefully HMG are more concerned with DCFC matters right now!

I did, well the first three sentences actually. That’s why I was puzzled by your ‘survival of the fittest’ assertion. Still am, but I won’t argue with anyone who calls me ‘young man’.

[Ramshank72]

I did, well the first three sentences actually. That’s why I was puzzled by your ‘survival of the fittest’ assertion. Still am, but I won’t argue with anyone who calls me ‘young man’.

Well I'll add beautiful to the compliment if it puts a smile on your face, doesn't get me any luck with the wife mind!
The pertinent point is that fit in our society is not relevant to covid vulnerability, but to skills and intelligence (eg it doesn't matter how big your surgeon's biceps are, but how skilled they are at their job). Therefore by protecting those vulnerable to covid, we are protecting the fit of our society.

[swaledale]

Not gone over my head at all...but it’s just you and your YouTube conspiracists who say 17k rather than 153k isn’t it?
I’ll agree about one thing...the defining of deaths as a result of Covid has been flawed...daft even...but for every argument like yours there’s another saying that the number of deaths as a result of Covid has been deliberately understated in certain parts of the World.
We simply don’t know the truth...but I do know two things...I’m bloody grateful for the scientists who created the vaccines...and I do blame the current state of the NHS as much on a decade of underfunding from the ‘I’m alright Jack’ Party as I do on Covid.

rA its pointless arguing with this tosspot! He gets his info from dubious internet sources, which he cherry picks to suit his own personal point of view. Regrettably such people are immune to actually thinking rationally or cross checking before spouting utter crap!

Of course the selective interpretation of statistics isn't confined to Thicky, even more sentient people (and some who should know better) do this, indeed we are all supsceptable to bias in interpretation of information, but most people with a basic IQ do take the time to cross check something before posting it on the internet and claiming it as a fact.

Its actually quite easy to go on the ONS website and see that what Thicky says is false, interestingly, the ONS do say that excepting deaths from Covid, the average excess death rate is lower than would be expected. Also interesting is that diabetes is the major underlying health condition where Covid 19 has caused death.

Anyway, who cares what *******s Thicky trots out, every post he makes just underlines his utter stupidity, no hope best ignored and really best removed from this Forum.

[swaledale]

Rather a desperate comment to make about someone who's been so conspicuous by his absence from this thread recently. I take it as a compliment that I've got so far under your skin without trying

Eh you don't, have never and will never "get under my skin"! But then you have rather been prone to disingenuous statements, so par for the course really.

My statement still holds, Thicky is neither use nor ornament and posts a lot of bilge.

[Trickytreesreds]

Nigels on it now, he's roped in the ex director of the world health organisation to explain it.
Of course, this is all bilge and upsets Guardian front pages of the horrors and calls for more lockdowns.
Never mind though eh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U90eDxJV_9k

[Trickytreesreds]

Perhaps, the alliance is dead now?


25-03-2020, 10:35 PM#14swaledale swaledale is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
Okay...have it your way...to most people the difference is that you can’t catch lung cancer or heart disease from other people.

FACTS are that 20,000 people have died directly from this pandemic in the last four months and another 28 in our tiny little island nation just today.

There have now been more deaths in nearby Spain than have been declared in China and the situation in New York is pretty damned desperate but never mind...in your pseudo macho world it’s nowt but a ‘sniffle’.

Wake up Tricky...the majority may get a mild illness but for many others...and the global economy this IS the biggest crisis of all our lifetimes.
Much as I hate to say it, Tricky does have a point and its one I've made and was finally addressed by the BBC, the fact is coronavirus is not going to kill many more people than would have died anyway from a respiratory disease.

That figure is roughly 56,000 in the Uk alone each year, due to smoking, poor lifestyle, poverty, flu, pneumonia etc. A lot of these deaths could be averted if, people didn't smoke, air pollution was addressed and poverty was addressed so that people did not live in poor housing and have poor diets.

The issue with coronavirus is not the numbers, its been admitted by the experts that it probably won't result in many more deaths than usual, the issue is that the sheer number of cases could overwhelm the NHS or other countries health service, meaning that other people would die because the health service wont be able to treat them.

Which to be fair to the government has been explained, we are not going to stop it, just slow down the rate of transmission.

[Trickytreesreds]

WELL WELL WELL, WOULD YOU ADAM AND EVE IT,


26-03-2020, 10:10 AM#19swaledale swaledale is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
Well there’s an unholy alliance if ever there was one. Good though that people of such different persuasions can set aside such differences to occasionally agree.

I completely agree with your second paragraph but beyond that I’m puzzled.

Clearly you make a fair point about the impact on the NHS, but to suggest that ‘it probably won’t result in many more deaths than usual’ makes no sense at all to me, as the figures and scenes that have emerged from both Italy and Spain over just the last month or so would suggest.

You do actually ‘stop it’ by slowing down the ‘rate of transmission’ allowing time for a vaccine to be discovered and developed. The trick then is to make such a vaccine universally available rather than just another means to make a vast profit.

That last sentence may be naively idealistic on my part, but then I speak as one who believes that it shouldn’t take a crisis to bring about free on site parking for NHS workers, and is still coming to terms with the most right wing PM since Thatcher apparently embracing a philosophy more akin to Communism.
RA the one question you need to ask is what is Italy's (and other countries) death rate from coronavirus as compared to the normal death rate?

Because without that information you have no context other than the number of cases is very high.

So in the Uk in average year there are 56,000 "excess winter deaths" most of which are from respiratory diseases.

If this year that rises to say 76,000, then we will know that coronavirus killed an additional 20,000. BUT that isn't likely and the government experts have admitted there will be considerable overlap between those killed by Corvid - 19 and some other disease. In fact they haven't taken into account in their modelling of these other deaths! I would put a substantial amount of money on there being minimal additional deaths due to Corvid-19, most would have died anyway.

We don't even know the mortality rate, because thousands of people will have been infected but not tested it could be very low indeed.

Yes the 7,000 or so deaths in Italy (90% over 70's) sounds bad, but if 6,500 would have died anyway this year then its a different picture.

There wont be a vaccine for 18 months and therefore we will return to something like normal once we can test for infection and immunity. The collapse of the world economy will likely kill more people than Corvid-19.

[ramAnag]

Nigels on it now, he's roped in the ex director of the world health organisation to explain it.
Of course, this is all bilge and upsets Guardian front pages of the horrors and calls for more lockdowns.
Never mind though eh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U90eDxJV_9k

Oh well...if Farage is ‘on it now’ that’ll help. The man known for choosing winners...UKIP, Trump, Djokovic...has a latest ‘cause celebre’.
If that makes you feel better...so be it. I won’t waste time arguing with such gullibility.

Yesterday I largely avoided Party politics because this is to do with common sense.
As it happens I have a first hand knowledge of how Covid is manifesting itself and being responded to in four different countries...the UK, the USA, Germany and Spain.
In the former two people are becoming careless and falling over themselves to get rid of restrictions and return to ‘normal’. In the latter two they have, in my experience, been far more cautious and responsible. Guess which two countries have the worse Covid death and case figures. It’s no coincidence.

[Andy_Faber]

Oh well...if Farage is ‘on it now’ that’ll help. The man known for choosing winners...UKIP, Trump, Djokovic...has a latest ‘cause celebre’.
If that makes you feel better...so be it. I won’t waste time arguing with such gullibility.

Yesterday I largely avoided Party politics because this is to do with common sense.
As it happens I have a first hand knowledge of how Covid is manifesting itself and being responded to in four different countries...the UK, the USA, Germany and Spain.
In the former two people are becoming careless and falling over themselves to get rid of restrictions and return to ‘normal’. In the latter two they have, in my experience, been far more cautious and responsible. Guess which two countries have the worse Covid death and case figures. It’s no coincidence.

I can’t comment on USA or Germany but back in 2020 I commented on first person anecdotes about Spain systematically under reporting Covid deaths. This is supported by later independent studies, so I don’t think Spain is a good comparator

[Andy_Faber]

Eh you don't, have never and will never "get under my skin"!

You see I’ve done it again.