O/T. To misquote Henry II...

[ramAnag]

Not looking for a scrap here MA just pointing out that for someone in that position (renting houses) that is VERY different in terms of impact. I pay ‘the marginal rate’ (lets say up to 40%) on an income I’ve bust a beauloq for decades to achieve, not complaining but 0% v 40% is significant. NB before the wolves start howling I rent out at below market rate

I may be getting out of my depth here...but surely MA is only referring to the questionable morality of someone being able to increase their income substantially under the Dutch system without paying any additional tax by renting out property.

I’m not sure what you renting at ‘below market rate’ has to do with anything, AF...without further explanation. They might be very poor properties or in very undesirable areas or you might be a particularly charitable, Christian and altruistic individual...who can tell?

Either way, surely if your income (including rents) is taxed at 40% then this is an indication of your whole income level and the money you receive via renting property must be worth it otherwise it wouldn’t be worth the undoubted occasional hassle.

[ramAnag]

Cant help feeling the Cloggies are missing a trick there too, but I shouldn't comment!

Yes you should, because this (tax law etc, though not necessarily Dutch tax law) is your area of expertise.
You were though, imo, wholly wrong to tell MA he had no business saying what he did because a) he is a UK citizen who spent much of his working life paying UK taxes and b) the question is more of a moral one than a financial one.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yes you should, because this (tax law etc, though not necessarily Dutch tax law) is your area of expertise.
You were though, imo, wholly wrong to tell MA he had no business saying what he did because a) he is a UK citizen who spent much of his working life paying UK taxes and b) the question is more of a moral one than a financial one.

We will have to disagree then, hardly an unusual event!!

The tax he will have paid in the past is already long spent (and more), and he has no more right to a say in future UK tax strategy than does Vladimir Putin or Dr Dre - neither of whom to my knowledge pay UK tax.

You may see the question as moral, I see it as financial

[ramAnag]

We will have to disagree then, hardly an unusual event!!

The tax he will have paid in the past is already long spent (and more), and he has no more right to a say in future UK tax strategy than does Vladimir Putin or Dr Dre - neither of whom to my knowledge pay UK tax.

You may see the question as moral, I see it as financial

Indeed...but at least respectfully so.

I imagine, as a UK citizen, not only does MA have a right to his say but also a right to vote...although I also recognise that these days our PM would appear to only be elected by those holding Tory Party membership.

Just out of interest...as you’re not - to the best of my knowledge - Russian, Ukrainian, South African or Irish...does this mean you should be precluded from offering any opinion at all on the recent invasion of Ukraine, Apartheid or the post Brexit Irish border issues?

[MadAmster]

Indeed...but at least respectfully so.

I imagine, as a UK citizen, not only does MA have a right to his say but also a right to vote...although I also recognise that these days our PM would appear to only be elected by those holding Tory Party membership.

Just out of interest...as you’re not - to the best of my knowledge - Russian, Ukrainian, South African or Irish...does this mean you should be precluded from offering any opinion at all on the recent invasion of Ukraine, Apartheid or the post Brexit Irish border issues?

Come on rA, you should know by now that GPs rules only apply to GP. I can't have an opinion on UK Tax it seems but he never objected when I posted in the Government's handling of Covid thread of the Brexit threads.

With regard to the right to vote, I was disenfranchised in 1999, having been out of the country for 15 years. There has been talk of scrapping the removal of the vote in future and reinstating those disenfranchised such as myself. Should that happen, I would abstain from voting. I don't pay into the country so wouldn't think it right to have a say in which party is in power, which should please GP. However, he is completely and utterly wrong in his assertion that I shouldn't have an opinion on UK taxation and also shouldn't voice that opinion. Who knows, I might just win the EuroJackpot first prize tomorrow of €91M and buy myself into partnership with David Clowes as part owner of DCFC. That would put me right back into the front line of taxation with my part ownership of the football club. I wouldn't want to have to start from scratch

GPs attempts at setting limits to the range of topics on which I may have an opinion and comment upon is 100% censorship and absolutely not in his purview. Unless he's a Tory wanting complete control of our lives...... in which case, bring it on, you'll lose.

[Geoff Parkstone]

If you bought into a partnership with Clowes I don't think tax will be the height of your concerns - owning a football club rarely generates profits to tax, as our past several years have demonstrated

[ramAnag]

Come on rA, you should know by now that GPs rules only apply to GP. I can't have an opinion on UK Tax it seems but he never objected when I posted in the Government's handling of Covid thread of the Brexit threads.

With regard to the right to vote, I was disenfranchised in 1999, having been out of the country for 15 years. There has been talk of scrapping the removal of the vote in future and reinstating those disenfranchised such as myself. Should that happen, I would abstain from voting. I don't pay into the country so wouldn't think it right to have a say in which party is in power, which should please GP. However, he is completely and utterly wrong in his assertion that I shouldn't have an opinion on UK taxation and also shouldn't voice that opinion. Who knows, I might just win the EuroJackpot first prize tomorrow of €91M and buy myself into partnership with David Clowes as part owner of DCFC. That would put me right back into the front line of taxation with my part ownership of the football club. I wouldn't want to have to start from scratch

GPs attempts at setting limits to the range of topics on which I may have an opinion and comment upon is 100% censorship and absolutely not in his purview. Unless he's a Tory wanting complete control of our lives...... in which case, bring it on, you'll lose.

At the risk of commenting about a country I have no connection with ...it seems wrong to me that anyone should be disenfranchised in this way.
I can understand the argument that you are no longer resident in the UK so shouldn’t have a vote, but everyone is resident somewhere so, imo, it should be an either or. You should either have the right to vote in UK elections or in Dutch ones imo. Never both and never neither...one of the less complicated conundrums of modern life.

[MadAmster]

If you bought into a partnership with Clowes I don't think tax will be the height of your concerns - owning a football club rarely generates profits to tax, as our past several years have demonstrated

Director's fees, travel allowance, free tickets, free match day food and drink, company car.......

You may be right but it seems that DC bought the club despite not wanting to in order to keep it alive. He is aiming to run at break even at worst which would also be my modus operandi. Make a profit, take a small dividend and pay taxes on that plus all the benefits of beign a director

[MadAmster]

At the risk of commenting about a country I have no connection with ...it seems wrong to me that anyone should be disenfranchised in this way.
I can understand the argument that you are no longer resident in the UK so shouldn’t have a vote, but everyone is resident somewhere so, imo, it should be an either or. You should either have the right to vote in UK elections or in Dutch ones imo. Never both and never neither...one of the less complicated conundrums of modern life.

Live abroad for 15 years and you're disenfranchised by HMG. At that point, in 1999, I was not yet a Dutch citizen so my voting rights were limited. I could vote in local elections and in EU elections but not in Dutch Parliamentary elections. That changed a few years back (4 I think) when it came to pass that my family would be in a separate queue at passport control to me and the chances were that either they'd end up having to wait for me in the slow lane or vice versa. Now armed with 2 passports, if travelling alone, I pick the shortest queue, be that UK or EU. When travelling with family it's EU.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I was disenfranchised almost immediately, upon achieving non UK residence for tax purposes, when I moved to Bermuda in 1979. That was no representation without taxation, but the electoral roll people didnt seem to get the irony