O/T:- Michael Gove

[cher1]

Just a quick one for you cher.why does my local pool have ladies only swimming sessions (incorporating use of the sauna and steam facilities) in the afternoon and evening but is not reciprocated for the male species?
Equality for all,but not men.....?,!

Because many women feel uncomfortable wearing very little in front of men they don't know. Because swimming pools are where many ***ual crimes such as harassment, voyeurism and assault happen, particularly in uni*** changing rooms.

[Elite_Pie]

Whichever version of Mr Cummings story you believe I fully agree that the events were handled very badly by all concerned. Obviously not the the biggest or most important lie by a politician but one that does not reflect well on the participants.

Maybe not the biggest or most important lie by a politician, but I can't think of a more blatant one. The Prime Minister, with the backing of his cabinet, chose to openly and deliberately lie to the electorate. Nobody objected and said "look, this is wrong, I can't go along with it". They all said "ok, let's lie to them". You may be happy being governed by people like that, but I'm not.

[forwardmagpie]

Maybe not the biggest or most important lie by a politician, but I can't think of a more blatant one. The Prime Minister, with the backing of his cabinet, chose to openly and deliberately lie to the electorate. Nobody objected and said "look, this is wrong, I can't go along with it". They all said "ok, let's lie to them". You may be happy being governed by people like that, but I'm not.

If you think that’s the most blatant lie by a politician then that is your view but not one I share.

[upthemaggies]

If you think that’s the most blatant lie by a politician then that is your view but not one I share.

[BigFatPie]

How funny that the right wing press and the vast majority of Tory MPs were right behind a Labour leader’s war.

Some of us weren’t so easily conned.

[Elite_Pie]

If you think that’s the most blatant lie by a politician then that is your view but not one I share.

It was the most blatant because everyone knew it was a complete fabrication. Tell me a more blatant lie.

[BigFatPie]

Should males have the right to be inmates in women's prisons?

Should males have the right to work in women's rape crisis centres?

Should males have the right to undress and shower in a changing room with ****age girls?

What about as patients on women's wards?

If the issue was as straightforward as males and females there wouldn’t be an problem.

Just wondering if you thought it was right for my trans colleague to use the women’s toilet facilities?

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Because many women feel uncomfortable wearing very little in front of men they don't know. Because swimming pools are where many ***ual crimes such as harassment, voyeurism and assault happen, particularly in uni*** changing rooms.

So we are not all equal...
However they do sell full swim suits not just bikinis, also some men feel uncomfortable in such situations.How many ***ual crimes take place in the pool and changing areas ? I've been swimming many many many years and have never seen a crime in the manner you have identified, I'm not saying it never happens but many is a term I would question so some figures to support this claim would help qualify if it was questionable or has validity.

[HaylePie]

If the issue was as straightforward as males and females there wouldn’t be an problem.

Just wondering if you thought it was right for my trans colleague to use the women’s toilet facilities?

Even that isn't straightforward tho BFP. Is the trans colleague genuine trans or a manipulative individual gaining access to women's safe spaces? How would you safeguard both parties - separate the genuine from the dangerous? This is the sort of issue women are raising and meeting with immediate accusations of transphobia - often very aggressively. Debate is stifled.

[applepie2]

If the issue was as straightforward as males and females there wouldn’t be an problem.

Just wondering if you thought it was right for my trans colleague to use the women’s toilet facilities?

The toilet facilities issue is fairly easy to solve when designing new ones. With old style ladies’ and gents’ there has always been some embarrassment with men who don’t look very male and women who don’t look very female, many of whom must have got funny looks or worse, and inadvertently worried other users.

Women’s refuges and prisons are definitely places where very vulnerable people should be protected from any man masquerading as a woman. The biggest difficulty is distinguishing them, and I’m not at all convinced that self-declaration of “gender” should be sufficient in law.