Joey Barton

[SithHappens]

I know a lot of businesses have targets now for new employees so a certain % of Bame, LGBTQ are employed. A previous employer I work for set a 10% for LGBTQ employees.

Personally I think it should be best person for the job , but also am not that naive and know there is still a lot of prejudice out there.

it's not that long ago, only circa 20 years that the first member of our team was employed who was black and the undisguised dislike of him by some members of the team was disgusting.

[swaledale]

AF didn't step in to condemn accusations of someone being a 'racist misogynistic, knob' but no matter, maybe that doesn't count as abuse. I value a woman's opinion as much as a man's, I was merely making the point that in many cases women and non-whites are being chosen to appear on TV because they are women and non-whites. I went on to say I hope the woman's game prospers and that it gets the TV coverage it deserves. 'Racist' and 'racism' are like most isms too vague to be of any worth. I will though plead guilty to being anti-muslim, and with respect, until you've read a page of the Quran I doubt you're qualified to offer an opinion of your own.

You can read some pages of the Bible and come to a similar conclusion and there are some very scary so called "Christians" out there. Being anti muslim is just xenophobia and ignorant.

[swaledale]

I see Barton has popped his head above the parapet and said that Mary Earps wining SPOTY is ridiculous and "woke", guess he doesn't realise its a public vote then? What a tosser!

Oh another fact, he played exactly 17 mins for England in winning his 1 cap, damn good footballer obvs!!

[ramAnag]

AF probably didn’t ‘step in’ because he knows I didn’t say you were a ‘racist, misogynistic knob’. What I said, as an extension to Sith’s description of JB as a ‘knob’, was that your opinions increasingly ‘make you sound like a racist, misogynistic, knob’. There’s a difference.
I apologise if you object to the word ‘knob’...personally I’d be more offended if someone accused me of being racist and/or misogynistic, but you seem to take a bizarre pride in the former at least.
My view is virtually exactly the same as Sith’s above and I will continue to challenge your, or anyone else’s, prejudice wherever it rears it’s ugly head.
Nothing more to say. Hope you enjoy your Christmas.

[ramAnag]

I see Barton has popped his head above the parapet and said that Mary Earps wining SPOTY is ridiculous and "woke", guess he doesn't realise its a public vote then? What a tosser!

Oh another fact, he played exactly 17 mins for England in winning his 1 cap, damn good footballer obvs!!

Let it go Swale. To play for England at all makes you pretty damn good. For perspective...Kevin Hector played twice for England, including an 88th minute substitute entrance and he, imo, was an absolutely excellent footballer.
My only point was that Barton is a complete jerk who should have stuck to what he was good at...football, not pontificating.

[Andy_Faber]

AF didn't step in to condemn accusations of someone being a 'racist misogynistic, knob' but no matter, maybe that doesn't count as abuse. I value a woman's opinion as much as a man's, I was merely making the point that in many cases women and non-whites are being chosen to appear on TV because they are women and non-whites. I went on to say I hope the woman's game prospers and that it gets the TV coverage it deserves. 'Racist' and 'racism' are like most isms too vague to be of any worth. I will though plead guilty to being anti-muslim, and with respect, until you've read a page of the Quran I doubt you're qualified to offer an opinion of your own.

I did notice the ‘knob’ thing but thought it was a bit too ‘sticks and stones’ to warrant further comment, never mind sanction, having come from someone who’s more Bobby Charlton than Vinnie Jones

I do agree with Gunt though that the race card and the misogyny card are now played so much, and in so inappropriate situations, that they are losing any value. Gunt clearly has an issue with over representation of non-white people on TV, but so do I (and just about everyone I come across in the real world, it’s clearly an issue because comedians are now including the fact in their act) and I guess his ire, like mine, is directed at the ‘dogooder/virtue signalling’ element of the media, no racism intended. Whilst I think his ‘token blacks’ phrase is inflammatory, it’s commenting on the same issue as I have with ‘tokenism’ - AND, in your own words, your unease with quotas.

[ramAnag]

I did notice the ‘knob’ thing but thought it was a bit too ‘sticks and stones’ to warrant further comment, never mind sanction, having come from someone who’s more Bobby Charlton than Vinnie Jones

I do agree with Gunt though that the race card and the misogyny card are now played so much, and in so inappropriate situations, that they are losing any value. Gunt clearly has an issue with over representation of non-white people on TV, but so do I (and just about everyone I come across in the real world, it’s clearly an issue because comedians are now including the fact in their act) and I guess his ire, like mine, is directed at the ‘dogooder/virtue signalling’ element of the media, no racism intended. Whilst I think his ‘token blacks’ phrase is inflammatory, it’s commenting on the same issue as I have with ‘tokenism’ - AND, in your own words, your unease with quotas.

I could talk with you about this issue for ages, but I believe you’d do it without prejudice. Gunt didn’t...he spoke irritatedly of female tokenism and then disrespectfully of ‘black’ tokenism. On top of his comments about Moeen Ali and Muslims in general earlier in the year I think it’s easy to see his overt prejudice and is worth challenging.

My views are simple - and not necessarily ‘right’ - I don’t think women’s football is, or will ever be as good as mens’...I do think women have every right to express their views on the men’s game just as we on here, who also haven’t been top players, repeatedly do.

I don’t believe in quotas or positive discrimination. I think it’s generally counterproductive and essentially I believe in Sith’s ‘best person for the job’ scenario regardless of gender or race. Unfortunately there’s a codicil to that, as Sith hinted at...it being that there is, or certainly used to be, so much prejudice about that something needed to happen to establish a fairer balance.

Basically I’d like to see a situation emerge where we simply don’t notice what skin colour people are. That’s something you and I might disagree over, but constructively so. I sense (not hard) that Gunt on the other hand is far more entrenched and has far right sympathies which I will always oppose.

As for Bobby Charlton/Vinnie Jones...I have to admit that my football ‘skills’ had more in common with the latter and I do resent the comparison with Bobby on the basis that...a) I’m still alive b) still have all my own hair c) can’t stand MUFC.

[MadAmster]

I think a lot of the thoughts of people (not just on here) don't match with reality. There's a lot of talk about there being too few BAME coaches/managers in the game. Especially when you match that with the number of BAME players in the professional game. Research shows that there has been between 4% and 5% of BAME managers in the game. Roughly 5% of those with the right coaching qualifications are BAME. No great disparity there, IMO.

LGBTQ+? It's estimated that around 10% of the population is part of that group. They are "under" represented in some fields and "overly" represented in other fields. I wouldn't be surprised to find that, over the many fields of work, 10% of the total working population is LGBTQ+. Quotas shouldn't be levelled at any particular task, IMO, but at the working populace in total.

People, in general, should be "allowed" to work in spheres that fit their skillset and their wishes. Provided the working population and its underlying "groups" are in step, there is, IMO, no disparity. If any particular "group" is x% of the populace then having around x% of the in work population being from that "group" is not unrealistic.

The Koran? From the bits I have read of it, it says nothing that's any different in principle to the Torah or the Old Testament. Our religion is the right one. Others can be killed, enslaved, raped by our own and "God", apparently, won't mind one jot. "Others" are referred to as gentiles, goyim, kufr and other disparaging terms.

I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever their religion preaches and act accordingly.... up to the point where that negatively impacts me by expecting me to adhere to their beliefs. They are, after all, beliefs and not facts. Try to enslave me, if you dare! This also applies to Schwab and the WEF. My message to him is just two words, the second of which is off.

[Andy_Faber]

Sensibly put both, even where I don't necessarily agree

[Andy_Faber]

I know a lot of businesses have targets now for new employees so a certain % of Bame, LGBTQ are employed. A previous employer I work for set a 10% for LGBTQ employees.

And that IMO is a silly bit of virtue signalling that shows an ignorance of the issue

The declared LGBT population is only around 3.5% for starters, but how would an organisation identify that cohort in any case? By their declaration on a job application? Its not legally required, many lie about it (and imagine a straight person lying about it to improve employment opportunities...), many choose not to declare it, so do the employees go on people's actions or looks? Such a rule favours an openly LGBT person over one who isn't open, surely not the intention. And what about the effeminite (but straight) batchelor in accounts who everyone thinks only got his job to reach a quota. Given the prejudice we all seem to think exist he becomes an utterly innocent piece of collateral damage to a bit of doogooding