OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[AdiSalisbury]

IF.... and it's a chuffin huge IF....... there is a 2nd referendum, we should have 3 choices on it (I still won't get a vote though).

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly
3. Remain

If no individual choice gets a minimum of 50% +1 of the votes cast, there is another referendum, a straight fight between the 2 standpoints gaining the most votes in the new referendum.

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly)

Why water down the vote with 3, leave has already been voted for? It just splits the public further. These politicians digging their heals in to remain are totally disgraceful, this should've all been sorted by now.

[ramAnag]

Ah but you will if remain lose that one as well! especially with another minority majority for brexit

Actually I won’t. It’s a gamble I don’t entirely like but if, given everything we now know, the vote is for ‘Leave’ I’d be hugely disappointed but have to accept that the majority of my fellow countrymen don’t know what’s good for them.

Note no one has challenged the premise that our economy/currency looks stronger in direct proportion to Brexit looking less likely though.

Why should there be the three choices ‘Amster proposes, Adi? Because without the ‘Remain’ option you would be disenfranchising that significant part of the electorate (34%) who voted ‘Remain’ last time.

[swaledale]

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly)

Why water down the vote with 3, leave has already been voted for? It just splits the public further. These politicians digging their heals in to remain are totally disgraceful, this should've all been sorted by now.

Ah but thats parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy for you! Which ironically was something I thought brexiteers were eager to reclaim because it had supposedly been lost as members of the EU.

Interesting fact, IF the referendum had not been only advisory (which for those too thick to work out means that the result does not in any way legally or democratically bind parliament to enact its result) then the criminal acts of falsehoods and excessive spending by the leave side would make it null and void, its only the fact that it is not binding upon parliament that it hasn't been.

So in a real democracy and one which supposedly holds itself as beacon for the rest of the world, our MP's should actually be demanding that there is another referendum purely on the basis that the previous one was by any legal measure fraudulent.

The High Court came to its conclusion that the referendum was not legally binding guided by “basic constitutional principles of parliamentary sovereignty and representative parliamentary democracy”.

In a parliamentary democracy, as barrister Rupert Myers bluntly puts it, “the people are not sovereign”.

I'm not sure why people think that there would be a narrow majority in favour of leave if there were another referendum, only 37% actually voted and that only got a narrow majority, I suspect a far bigger turnout would see a clear remain majority.

[Andy_Faber]

without the ‘Remain’ option you would be disenfranchising that significant part of the electorate (34%) who voted ‘Remain’ last time.

Slightly ironic that you are happy to disenfranchise the 37% but not the 34%....

[AdiSalisbury]

Ah but thats parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy for you! Which ironically was something I thought brexiteers were eager to reclaim because it had supposedly been lost as members of the EU.

Interesting fact, IF the referendum had not been only advisory (which for those too thick to work out means that the result does not in any way legally or democratically bind parliament to enact its result) then the criminal acts of falsehoods and excessive spending by the leave side would make it null and void, its only the fact that it is not binding upon parliament that it hasn't been.

So in a real democracy and one which supposedly holds itself as beacon for the rest of the world, our MP's should actually be demanding that there is another referendum purely on the basis that the previous one was by any legal measure fraudulent.

The High Court came to its conclusion that the referendum was not legally binding guided by “basic constitutional principles of parliamentary sovereignty and representative parliamentary democracy”.

In a parliamentary democracy, as barrister Rupert Myers bluntly puts it, “the people are not sovereign”.

I'm not sure why people think that there would be a narrow majority in favour of leave if there were another referendum, only 37% actually voted and that only got a narrow majority, I suspect a far bigger turnout would see a clear remain majority.

Such is the world we live in, low credibility and self serving, poor show.

Disagree with the last part though, another referendum would see a massive leave majority. Its good guessing, if only there was some way we could gauge public opinion on which way a vote would go.

[MadAmster]

Food for thought?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...pNiSEMBrXHzlqM

[Andy_Faber]

Such is the world we live in, low credibility and self serving, poor show.

Disagree with the last part though, another referendum would see a massive leave majority. Its good guessing, if only there was some way we could gauge public opinion on which way a vote would go.

My guage of public opinion which is fairly wide (a tens of thousands social media community) suggests that no-one has changed their stances regarding the vote, and for the most part opinions have hardened. The arguments for remain on social media are significantly more rational than those for leave, and the reasons for leave continue to include those not relating to EU membership. The strength of the remain argument always seems to be laced with an air of superiority though and that simply winds up/entrenches leave stances further. One very significant and repeated trend is the continued love amongst leavers for Nigel Farage and the belief that he will lead the charge if there is another vote. I can’t overemphasise how key his involvement would be, his (not ukips) fan base is massive

[ramAnag]

Slightly ironic that you are happy to disenfranchise the 37% but not the 34%....

Not ‘happy to disenfranchise the 37%’ at all Andy.
If however the support of the 37% was won via a campaign based on lies and misinformation then surely a more informed electorate voting a second time is, as Swale rightly suggests above, actually an opportunity for improving the democratic process for all.

Food for thought, ‘Amster? Seems to suggest we might have recovered economically from the ravages of Brexit within thirty years. Great! By then just about everyone on here, apart perhaps from Adi, will be dead and most of our children will have retired! Until then...

Andy...if Farage has such a great fan base how come he’s failed on each of the seven times he’s tried to be elected to Parliament. Man of the people? The man is the most duplicitous hypocrite in Britain...imo.

[MadAmster]

Food for thought, ‘Amster? Seems to suggest we might have recovered economically from the ravages of Brexit within thirty years. Great! By then just about everyone on here, apart perhaps from Adi, will be dead and most of our children will have retired! Until then...

If the investment was planned to take place in 30 years time I would agree with your comment rA but they will be "continuing to invest"........ not keeping a pot of gold on one side to put in in 30 years time.

[ramAnag]

If the investment was planned to take place in 30 years time I would agree with your comment rA but they will be "continuing to invest"........ not keeping a pot of gold on one side to put in in 30 years time.

Take your point, but even JRM and the ERG have conceded that any economic benefit from leaving the EU is not likely to materialise for 35-40 years.
Funny how they never said that in 2016 when the Brexit negotiations were, according to Fox and IDS, going to be so ‘straightforward and easy’.