OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Likewise and there’s no more frustrating sound now, nearly half a decade after the people spoke, than a remoaner remoaning like a kid who’s been given an orange instead of a Sherbert Dip. Do like most remain voters and get with the programme Swale!

Ah yes, ‘the people spoke’...or to be more correct...less than half ‘the people’ were misled into voting for something.
You regularly defend our system of ‘democracy’ by saying that those elected can be held to account, Andy.
The current Government was elected largely on the back of ‘the people’ being fed up of a) Corbyn’s inadequacy and b) the endless arguments over Brexit.
Seems fair to point out that, thus far, there seem to only be disadvantages as far as trade, travel and Brexit are concerned, so what exactly is wrong with holding Brexit and Brexiteer politicians to account, AF?

[Andy_Faber]

Ah yes, ‘the people spoke’...or to be more correct...less than half ‘the people’ were misled into voting for something.
You regularly defend our system of ‘democracy’ by saying that those elected can be held to account, Andy.
The current Government was elected largely on the back of ‘the people’ being fed up of a) Corbyn’s inadequacy and b) the endless arguments over Brexit.
Seems fair to point out that, thus far, there seem to only be disadvantages as far as trade, travel and Brexit are concerned, so what exactly is wrong with holding Brexit and Brexiteer politicians to account, AF?

Just seeing how alert you were today RA

Seriously, no argument with the ‘held to account’ thing, and yes our democracy means if folk don’t like how Brexit/Covid/other stuff has been managed they can vote out this rabble and vote in a different rabble. Who knows in three years time what the mood of the country or the level of incompetence of the current admin might be. My only concern this far out is the the decision will become US-like personality politics

My whinge is more that anyone still carrying a tonne of Brexit chips on their shoulders can’t be properly focussed on the effort that could be expended on making our economy a vibrant one again

[ramAnag]

Just seeing how alert you were today RA

Seriously, no argument with the ‘held to account’ thing, and yes our democracy means if folk don’t like how Brexit/Covid/other stuff has been managed they can vote out this rabble and vote in a different rabble. Who knows in three years time what the mood of the country or the level of incompetence of the current admin might be. My only concern this far out is the the decision will become US-like personality politics

My whinge is more that anyone still carrying a tonne of Brexit chips on their shoulders can’t be properly focussed on the effort that could be expended on making our economy a vibrant one again

Well, seeing as both Swale and I are retired it seems unlikely that either of us will ever be ‘focussed on the effort to make our economy vibrant again’.

Seriously though...like every other manifesto promise from those who find themselves in power...the success or otherwise of Brexit will be judged.
Covid has created a situation where such judgements are obviously harder to implement than they might otherwise have been however the fact is that so far it seems to be a case of ‘so far...so bad’ and, however much one wishes the UK to succeed, there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ah yes, ‘the people spoke’...or to be more correct...less than half ‘the people’ were misled into voting for something.
You regularly defend our system of ‘democracy’ by saying that those elected can be held to account, Andy.
The current Government was elected largely on the back of ‘the people’ being fed up of a) Corbyn’s inadequacy and b) the endless arguments over Brexit.
Seems fair to point out that, thus far, there seem to only be disadvantages as far as trade, travel and Brexit are concerned, so what exactly is wrong with holding Brexit and Brexiteer politicians to account, AF?

So we are 1-0 down after 7 minutes, Do you sack the manager

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well, seeing as both Swale and I are retired it seems unlikely that either of us will ever be ‘focussed on the effort to make our economy vibrant again’.

Seriously though...like every other manifesto promise from those who find themselves in power...the success or otherwise of Brexit will be judged.
Covid has created a situation where such judgements are obviously harder to implement than they might otherwise have been however the fact is that so far it seems to be a case of ‘so far...so bad’ and, however much one wishes the UK to succeed, there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Your observation on being judged on manifestos and implementation of them is fair. the Tories had a brexit based manifesto, but in practice so did Labour (by sitting on the wall and staying neutral for fear of alienating even more voters). So how do you politically differentiate between the two parties when neither were remainer backing parties? Future electorates who hark back to the golden days of EU membership will look back and see no party supporting that stance - apart from the LibDems who are an irrelevance and the Greens who are even more so. I ignore Scotland/SNP here for the moment as they are "a different place" with different agendae

You can hardly blame a political party for driving through Brexit when no other significant party objected. Remain / Leave was a cross party issue, not aligned with Tory/Labour. Whoever had won the BJ/JC election would have had to effect Brexit - that election was, and still is, a poisoned chalice: made no less poisoned by COVID

[ramAnag]

Labour’s/Corbyn’s inadequacies at the last election are no longer relevant.
Farage apart...everyone knows that the leading players in the Brexit campaign were Johnson, Gove, Raab and a collection of other largely right wing Tories. They, accompanied by Cummings and the ineffectual UKIP, drove the Brexit campaign. If they are proved right they are entitled to take the credit. If, as currently seems more likely imo, that decision will be what they are judged on.

[Geoff Parkstone]

It's interesting that things in the past that don't support your argument are irrelevant, whereas other things in the past that do are hugely relevant. C'est la vie

[Trickytreesreds]

Well with the EU now taking charge of industrial production of vaccine, the old addage that Sir Nigel used to quote is coming true.
They are getting more like the Soviet bloc was, day by day.
Having already sucked in law/borders/money with an anthem/army/flag, closer union gets closer and closer.
Now a new job gets created for Arch-federalist Mr Verhofstadt being confirmed as chairman of a seven-person delegation which will spearhead the Conference on the Future of Europe, a series of events organised by the European Parliament, European Commission and European Council, and aimed at “giving citizens a greater role in shaping the Union's future policies and ambitions”.

All in font of your very eyes.
Don't believe me? Listen to those who lived under communism for decades. They know the signs.

Morawiecki, 52, likened the EU's approach to the dictatorship Poland had "known well" during its decades under the communist regime, The Times reports.

Like the Catholic church preach on contraception. "better out than in"

[Andy_Faber]

Someone in government really doesn’t like Swale. I’m not even going to post a link

[ramAnag]

It's interesting that things in the past that don't support your argument are irrelevant, whereas other things in the past that do are hugely relevant. C'est la vie

The Tories have been in power for almost eleven (11!) years, GP. Brexit was/is a Tory/UKIP concept so please don’t bang on about Corbyn or try and make the Labour Party relevant to that argument. Makes you sound like someone else.
All that matters now is, I agree, what happens next. Your Party of Government has a huge majority...where we go from here will be down to them. What happens next is all that is ‘hugely relevant’ but so far things don’t look good do they? We shall see, but I don’t think you playing the ‘I voted Remain’, ‘Covid’s made it a poisoned chalice’ and ‘let’s blame Labour’ cards is a very encouraging start.