OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Tell you what...to clear this monumentally boring, but highly relevant, spat up for good...if you still don’t believe they wrote that ‘this has been compounded by a national shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers as a result of Brexit’, you tell us all what they did actually write.

RA that is simply not true.
The Brexit thing is a red herring to cover up the plight.
There are 80 000 HGV drivers in this country now! NOT WORKING in the industry. All qualified and reeady for the job. They won't do it, because of wages and conditions.
Just because the Poles and Romanians have had enough and bombed it as well, is bugger all to do with Brexit.
We reaped what we sowed.
Just like Starmer with the Labour party. This country has a lot of wrongs to put right, that isn't going to happen over night.

Tricky...to be clear there are two, at least, arguments here.

One concerns Andy wholly incorrectly and untypically denying that Derbyshire Dales DC said what they said. They did...there really can be no argument about that...but that, I suppose, is between me and him.

The second is, as you rightly identify, whether Derbyshire Dales and the local government website are correct in that claim.

I have made no comment regarding the second because I just don’t know...like yours, I believe, my knowledge of the HGV business is confined to having lived next door to a truck driver, friend and fellow DCFC supporter for thirty years until 2016.

What the point of my original post was, and what I find relevant and interesting, is that we have a situation where my own Conservative controlled council in the heart of a Brexit supporting area is now blaming Brexit for the shortage of HGV drivers.

Whether they are right or not I don’t know, but that is what they said and it certainly seems to represent a dramatic change of outlook.

Not sure how you can sensibly suggest that the ‘withdrawal’ of workers from the UK including ‘Poles and Romanians’ has ‘bugger all to do with Brexit’, but then the new line would appear to be that the shortage of HGV drivers, the refuse and recycling crisis, the shortage of fruit and veg pickers, the shortage of hospitality industry workers etc and the implementation of ‘Brexit’ are all just a series of coincidences. Regrettably, imo, they aren’t.

[MadAmster]

1. The 17.5 M was the voters who said no
2. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56846637 it has gone up since
3. It's the EU fault for absorbing all the old soviet bloc countries and upsetting the standard of living in Northern Europe. Free movement has driven it.
4. The 900 000 came from a poltics tv programme. I'll try to find it. Over a year ago, it cleared half a million THAT APPLIED for permanent residency. https://www.romania-insider.com/roma...t-uk-residence


If you want to look at what that does for areas, try this. Avoid Sheffield if you can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA-H4ItqOLo

1. what is the relevance of that figure in this debate?
2. Thanks for the clarification
3. I'm struggling to marry what you say. "land owners/supermarkets want it done for next to nothing." wouldn't have happened if the EU hadn't expanded appears to be what you are claiming. Them buggers have wanted front row seats for a tanner for decadea/centuries.
4. clear

5. I always try to avoid Sheffield wherever possible. In the dim.dark and distant past I did visit the football grounds to see the Rams on several occasions and was also a not infrequent visitor to the soul nights at Samantha's. Changed trains there a few times as well. Apart from that, I steered clear.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ah...the old ‘back out’ trick...again! No idea what’s happened to you Andy but it won’t work. Next you’ll be saying, ‘Oh, I was just joshing rA,’...again! The words used by DDDC were the words I quoted.

The words I quoted were the exact words. Derbyshire Dales wrote yesterday about the refuse collection problem...`this has been compounded by a national shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers as a result of Brexit.’ That is not my opinion it is fact which, despite you initially denying that Brexit was even mentioned, I have provided for you in black and white.

Tell you what...to clear this monumentally boring, but highly relevant, spat up for good...if you still don’t believe they wrote that ‘this has been compounded by a national shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers as a result of Brexit’, you tell us all what they did actually write.

I'm not entering this argument, but would like to note a comment made by comedian Alun Cochrane on the radio last week. He was a remain advocate and voted that way, he said. When the result came in, he was sad - for a day - and then started coping. Seems some of us here still cannot cope years on, placing them firmly outside the Overton Window.

Whatever the reality behind things, Brexit is the easy target scapegot to blame for any failing, and so people will be using it as an excuse for years to come. I farted and followed through yesterday, thanks brexit for causing my underwear to be soiled. Gareth Southgate should have blamed brexit for Euro 2020 failure. This recent sapping spell of hot weather is all the fault of brexit. I expect its the real cause of covid?

Its surely time to stop using brexit as the excuse for failure, and instead man up and do something about it?

[Andy_Faber]

man up

**** SAKE Geoff, ‘person up’!

[ramAnag]

I'm not entering this argument

...he said, clearly entering the argument!

Don’t really ‘get’ your point, GP.

Clearly the condition of your bowels and underwear - a subject which has quite put me off my lunch - along with England’s inability to take penalties and the recent stifling temperatures demonstrably have nothing to do with Brexit.

Equally certainly some ‘problems’ the UK is newly facing - deliveries and refuse collection amongst them - may well be. Shouldn’t we then be pointing this out and trying to remedy the situation? Not sure the rather quaint advice of it being time to ‘man up’ in such circumstances is then entirely appropriate...rather I think it is time to question the reality of what Farage and Johnson were selling five years ago and hold them to account.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm not entering your spat with Andy over exact use of words

My observations are simple

1. What someone may or may not have said 5 years ago (to cite your example) is history. No more, no less. There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it, short of hiring Stewey Griffin to take you back in time. So why the angst, why waste time and emotional energy in repeatedly whining about the outcomes of Brexit. They are what they are, get over it.

2. Rightly or wrongly people will be blaming brexit for their own inadequacies for the next decade or more. Its the perfect (and very simple) excuse, cannot be proven, cannot be disproven and there will always be an eager audience ready to take it all in. It is the scapegoat to end all scapegoats and until we stop blaming every ill in the country / economy / life on brexit and get on with things, we will remain frozen in time and unable to move forward.

I don't doubt the sincerity and passion with which you hold your views, but you seem like the Japanese soldier fighting on years after the war is over. What's done is done, the battle is lost, what value is there in constantly going back over the same old same old Johnson this Farage that ground? learn to cope, as Cochrane said: it will be better for your mental health!

[ramAnag]

I'm not entering your spat with Andy over exact use of words

My observations are simple

1. What someone may or may not have said 5 years ago (to cite your example) is history. No more, no less. There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it, short of hiring Stewey Griffin to take you back in time. So why the angst, why waste time and emotional energy in repeatedly whining about the outcomes of Brexit. They are what they are, get over it.

2. Rightly or wrongly people will be blaming brexit for their own inadequacies for the next decade or more. Its the perfect (and very simple) excuse, cannot be proven, cannot be disproven and there will always be an eager audience ready to take it all in. It is the scapegoat to end all scapegoats and until we stop blaming every ill in the country / economy / life on brexit and get on with things, we will remain frozen in time and unable to move forward.

I don't doubt the sincerity and passion with which you hold your views, but you seem like the Japanese soldier fighting on years after the war is over. What's done is done, the battle is lost, what value is there in constantly going back over the same old same old Johnson this Farage that ground? learn to cope, as Cochrane said: it will be better for your mental health!

It’s an odd, if ultimately we’ll intentioned argument, and there is a difference between the proverbial ‘battle’ and the equally proverbial ‘war’.

I don’t believe I’ve cited any particularly personal reasons for challenging Brexit and neither do I believe I’m ‘whining’ about it.
In exactly the same way as you or I might reasonably take (any) Government to task for failing to deliver or contradicting their manifesto...isn’t it right and proper to do so where Brexit is concerned?

I accept it’s early days and I accept that Covid has clouded everything (although that works both ways)...but the dark clouds on the horizon are getting ever nearer particularly where NI, refuse collection, crop picking, travel and food deliveries are concerned. This isn’t what we were promised...as many of us sought to say at the time.

[Trickytreesreds]

It’s an odd, if ultimately we’ll intentioned argument, and there is a difference between the proverbial ‘battle’ and the equally proverbial ‘war’.

I don’t believe I’ve cited any particularly personal reasons for challenging Brexit and neither do I believe I’m ‘whining’ about it.
In exactly the same way as you or I might reasonably take (any) Government to task for failing to deliver or contradicting their manifesto...isn’t it right and proper to do so where Brexit is concerned?

I accept it’s early days and I accept that Covid has clouded everything (although that works both ways)...but the dark clouds on the horizon are getting ever nearer particularly where NI, refuse collection, crop picking, travel and food deliveries are concerned. This isn’t what we were promised...as many of us sought to say at the time.

RA, you can point out/whinge/claim victory all you want for me.
No one I know thought this would go like a smooth river.
I have already said there is a lot to undo.
If anyone, including you didn't expect hiccups, then they are deluded.
It will take years to settle it down. It was 45 years of tying the knots.
I personally feel the same now, as I did in 2016.
The thought of travelling down that road, towards a EUSSR, still outweighs any shortage of apples or bin pick ups.
As for NI, the trouble is more an example of EU meddling than anything. Only one side wants it to be difficult.
That same meddling/bullying is being squeezed on Poland/Hungary now. Sanctions and fines called for
It really is unbelievable.

[Trickytreesreds]

I didn't think the EU liked referendums,?

https://foxhole.news/2021/07/22/luxe...DTM8AFsmnRa79I

[Geoff Parkstone]

It’s an odd, if ultimately we’ll intentioned argument, and there is a difference between the proverbial ‘battle’ and the equally proverbial ‘war’.

I don’t believe I’ve cited any particularly personal reasons for challenging Brexit and neither do I believe I’m ‘whining’ about it.
In exactly the same way as you or I might reasonably take (any) Government to task for failing to deliver or contradicting their manifesto...isn’t it right and proper to do so where Brexit is concerned?

I accept it’s early days and I accept that Covid has clouded everything (although that works both ways)...but the dark clouds on the horizon are getting ever nearer particularly where NI, refuse collection, crop picking, travel and food deliveries are concerned. This isn’t what we were promised...as many of us sought to say at the time.

I thought the talked of hike in NI was due to covid rather than brexit - but as you say they do "cross cloud" one another. Anyway you and I probably wont have to pay it, unless they change the rules dramatically