OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

rA, despite TTR's tone he is sort of correct. Our original access deal into the EEC was disadvantageous to UK (and advantageous to France although that may have been incidental) due to our mix of industries and strong trade with non-EEC (mostly commonwealth) countries. It was this unfairness that Margaret Thatcher negotiated away with the famous 'rebate' we learned so much about in the months pre-Brexit vote. Ironically given Remoaners' gripe about insufficient/unclear/untrue information about the cost of leaving EU, if the public had known about the unfairness of the original access deal we may not have joined EEC in the first place, who knows

Labour didn't exactly 'toss away' the rebate, but did decline some or all of it for a long period as a contribution to EU expansion, again ironically to allow into EU the very countries who's uncontrolled immigrant constituents worked up Swales' Idiots to vote us out

So I guess its Tony Blair's fault

[Trickytreesreds]

rA, despite TTR's tone he is sort of correct. Our original access deal into the EEC was disadvantageous to UK (and advantageous to France although that may have been incidental) due to our mix of industries and strong trade with non-EEC (mostly commonwealth) countries. It was this unfairness that Margaret Thatcher negotiated away with the famous 'rebate' we learned so much about in the months pre-Brexit vote. Ironically given Remoaners' gripe about insufficient/unclear/untrue information about the cost of leaving EU, if the public had known about the unfairness of the original access deal we may not have joined EEC in the first place, who knows

Labour didn't exactly 'toss away' the rebate, but did decline some or all of it for a long period as a contribution to EU expansion, again ironically to allow into EU the very countries who's uncontrolled immigrant constituents worked up Swales' Idiots to vote us out

So I guess its Tony Blair's fault

Also, Brown as well, he failed. Blair did it, thinking he was worming his way into EU hearts.
He wasn't, got bum ***ed and Brown got a good hiding for trying to undo it.

https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2007...ver-uk-rebate/

[MadAmster]

Tricky essentially makes my point. The French designed the CAP to suit their needs and have abused it for years to the betterment of their agriculture over the common good.

But it doesn't matter as you probably won't believe me 😘

Brings me back to my everlasting view of the EU that it is run by the French and Germans for the betterment of the French and the Germans.

The CAP enables French farmers to ignore the need for diversity. Refuse to invest to get up to date on technology. Happy to farm, those that do still farm at any rate. The rest are quite happy to sit back, do nothing, leave their land fallow and suck up millions in EU subsidies for doing absolutely nowt.

The same is true of the CFP. French fishermen are, like their farmer counterparts, stuck in the past and refuse to update their fleets. The Dutch came up with the idea of pulse fishing which ensures (not sure how it works but it does) that they only catch fish they are allowed to in both species and size. This made their boats ultra efficient, the pulses get the fish off the bottom and so the fishing doesn't damage the sea floor and is good for fish stocks as it gives the smaller fish the chance to breed and grow until they too are the right size for catching. The French didn't want to invest in the new technology so they got their government to complain and got pulse fishing banned. That put all of the Dutch innovative boats out of commission and made some of the owners bankrupt.

[ramAnag]

Tricky...on this particular aspect of our relationship with the EU I’ll listen to GP on the basis that he has an agricultural background and a better understanding of finance than me. He’s also become increasingly pro Johnson and anti EU so when I listen I also take that on board.
I’m not sure that the same is true of you and I’m only likely to defer to you on matters relating to engineering, being a prison officer, Forest and the attractions of Thailand...your four areas of relative expertise.
Your stance is invariably one of hostility towards anything pro EU or remotely left of centre so I take little notice of your other rants.
I’m not sure how one can ‘look confused’ on a written forum...but asking for explanation/clarification of GP’s assertion in post #7803 - which is all I did before you leapt in - doesn’t seem unreasonable...and I will listen, GP.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky...on this particular aspect of our relationship with the EU I’ll listen to GP on the basis that he has an agricultural background and a better understanding of finance than me. He’s also become increasingly pro Johnson and anti EU so when I listen I also take that on board.
I’m not sure that the same is true of you and I’m only likely to defer to you on matters relating to engineering, being a prison officer, Forest and the attractions of Thailand...your four areas of relative expertise.
Your stance is invariably one of hostility towards anything pro EU or remotely left of centre so I take little notice of your other rants.
I’m not sure how one can ‘look confused’ on a written forum...but asking for explanation/clarification of GP’s assertion in post #7803 - which is all I did before you leapt in - doesn’t seem unreasonable...and I will listen, GP.

RA , you would make a very good current MP. You only want to listen to opinions that agree with yours. Hence the Guardian/BBC attitude.
It alarms me, that a man of your education, with over 1o years more life experiance than me, fails to grasp the injustice of the CAP.
you shouldn't even have to be told about it by anyone.
It has been banging about since the 70's, when Thatcher lost her rag and then negotiated a rebate for balance.
Nothing has changed and the French attitude as Maddy is pointing out, is that it won't.
From blocking ports, to burning lorries, the French and their partizan attitude to fairness has never gone away. Macron is the current torch barer.
My attitude to the EU is a classic realisation of what things like this represent.
You don't have to be an engineer/civil servant/rocket scientist to realise this.

So what the hell being a Forest fan/ having a property in Thailand/ working in the prison system(not an officer btw) has to do with my opinion on the facts is farcical in your response.

You see the EU as all dancing/wonderland of benefits. It isn't and never was. As Maddy is pointing out. It was and still is weighted heavily in favour of France and Germany. But the rest of us paid good money towards it.
Even you don''t need GP to tell you that, or does he spoon feed you as well?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Actually Tricky, rA didnt request any spoon feeding. I asserted that the French had been pursuing their own betterment in the EU for 60 years at the expense of common good, and he asked for clarity.

I admit I thought it was a well established, well known reality that the creation of the Common Market in 1960 was designed to give France control of food production, Germany control of industry, Italy a pat on the back and Benelux a sideways smile. In the 60 years since then, very little has changed in this balance / bias and the system still financially supports the sort of subsistence level farming that, if reflected across the world, would have led to global starvation by now.

A lot of French agriculture, particularly in the south, is more akin to heavily subsidised crofting, one family, one pig, one goat, unutilised land and a huge support payment with maybe commercial selling of their quotas. A sort of Tom and Barbra like back garden!.

Ironically French agriculture invented "rewilding" 50 years before it became the domain of the current woke generation - although Im not sure if rewilding is a woke thing, but you know what I mean

[Geoff Parkstone]

Tricky...on this particular aspect of our relationship with the EU I’ll listen to GP on the basis that he has an agricultural background and a better understanding of finance than me. He’s also become increasingly pro Johnson and anti EU so when I listen I also take that on board.
I’m not sure that the same is true of you and I’m only likely to defer to you on matters relating to engineering, being a prison officer, Forest and the attractions of Thailand...your four areas of relative expertise.
Your stance is invariably one of hostility towards anything pro EU or remotely left of centre so I take little notice of your other rants.
I’m not sure how one can ‘look confused’ on a written forum...but asking for explanation/clarification of GP’s assertion in post #7803 - which is all I did before you leapt in - doesn’t seem unreasonable...and I will listen, GP.

See response to Tricky above. However please note that this issue has been around for longer than Johnson has been alive, and so any attitude towards Johnson is unlikely to impact my perspective on the CAP! My view on Johnson hasnt changed, he's an ass - my view on the policies put in place by the civil service and tory government has probably mellowed, whilst yours has simultaneously hardened.

Furthermore my stance against the EU is no different now to what it was 5 years ago: its a curate's egg. The difference is that I have accepted that we have left and am getting on with life outside from a practical perspective. I fear you are still in the ivory towers of academia!

[ramAnag]

RA , you would make a very good current MP. You only want to listen to opinions that agree with yours. Hence the Guardian/BBC attitude.
It alarms me, that a man of your education, with over 1o years more life experiance than me, fails to grasp the injustice of the CAP.
you shouldn't even have to be told about it by anyone.
It has been banging about since the 70's, when Thatcher lost her rag and then negotiated a rebate for balance.
Nothing has changed and the French attitude as Maddy is pointing out, is that it won't.
From blocking ports, to burning lorries, the French and their partizan attitude to fairness has never gone away. Macron is the current torch barer.
My attitude to the EU is a classic realisation of what things like this represent.
You don't have to be an engineer/civil servant/rocket scientist to realise this.

So what the hell being a Forest fan/ having a property in Thailand/ working in the prison system(not an officer btw) has to do with my opinion on the facts is farcical in your response.

You see the EU as all dancing/wonderland of benefits. It isn't and never was. As Maddy is pointing out. It was and still is weighted heavily in favour of France and Germany. But the rest of us paid good money towards it.
Even you don''t need GP to tell you that, or does he spoon feed you as well?

You really do write some crap, Tricky.

I’ve just written that I take notice of GP because he knows more about agriculture and finance than I do. They are his backgrounds...they are not mine...or yours.

So far this morning you’ve banged on about Thatcher, Brown and Blair...they’re history. Look at what is happening in post Brexit Britain...it’s currently a shambles but you choose to ignore the most salient point about us having to go cap in hand to foreign workers to kick start our economy so soon after the Brexit process made the very same workers feel unwelcome.

My point about Forest, Thailand and Prisons, as you well know, was that we all have our areas of expertise and those are yours. If I wanted to know about those three things I’d give your answers credence. Where politics is concerned your prejudices...anti left, anti EU, anti migrant are so entrenched that they’ve lost all credibility.

It’s the same with everyone on here. MA has taught me something I didn’t know about the Dutch fishing industry this morning...Andy is a regular source of knowledge about music...GP knows more about both agriculture and matters financial than I ever will and Swale displays a better understanding of the workings of the EU than most, including me, imo.

Finally...I have never ever seen the EU as an ‘all dancing/wonderland of benefits’ and that assertion is the sort of typically ridiculously unfounded statement that makes arguing with you such a waste of time.
I think the EU is a deeply flawed organisation but one with huge potential for good. As I’ve said countless times before, I’d rather be part of something with such potential and work for change than be isolated on the political and financial periphery of Europe.
Coincidentally I also think the EFL is a deeply flawed organisation but look how going out on a limb against them has worked out for DCFC. Perhaps there are certain parallels there.

How’s our ‘withdrawal’ going by the way? All fine and dandy in the UK according to you is it? You choose to ignore all that is so obviously wrong in our country at the moment. It’s NOT all down to Brexit, but some of it sure as hell is, and if you want to go all the way back to Blair - another very flawed individual I accept - I think the UK under him was a great deal happier and healthier nation than it currently the case.

[Trickytreesreds]

You really do write some crap, Tricky.

I’ve just written that I take notice of GP because he knows more about agriculture and finance than I do. They are his backgrounds...they are not mine...or yours.

So far this morning you’ve banged on about Thatcher, Brown and Blair...they’re history. Look at what is happening in post Brexit Britain...it’s currently a shambles but you choose to ignore the most salient point about us having to go cap in hand to foreign workers to kick start our economy so soon after the Brexit process made the very same workers feel unwelcome.

My point about Forest, Thailand and Prisons, as you well know, was that we all have our areas of expertise and those are yours. If I wanted to know about those three things I’d give your answers credence. Where politics is concerned your prejudices...anti left, anti EU, anti migrant are so entrenched that they’ve lost all credibility.

It’s the same with everyone on here. MA has taught me something I didn’t know about the Dutch fishing industry this morning...Andy is a regular source of knowledge about music...GP knows more about both agriculture and matters financial than I ever will and Swale displays a better understanding of the workings of the EU than most, including me, imo.

Finally...I have never ever seen the EU as an ‘all dancing/wonderland of benefits’ and that assertion is the sort of typically ridiculously unfounded statement that makes arguing with you such a waste of time.
I think the EU is a deeply flawed organisation but one with huge potential for good. As I’ve said countless times before, I’d rather be part of something with such potential and work for change than be isolated on the political and financial periphery of Europe.
Coincidentally I also think the EFL is a deeply flawed organisation but look how going out on a limb against them has worked out for DCFC. Perhaps there are certain parallels there.

How’s our ‘withdrawal’ going by the way? All fine and dandy in the UK according to you is it? You choose to ignore all that is so obviously wrong in our country at the moment. It’s NOT all down to Brexit, but some of it sure as hell is, and if you want to go all the way back to Blair - another very flawed individual I accept - I think the UK under him was a great deal happier and healthier nation than it currently the case.

Wow that's a rant.

1. The topic was EU discontent in Poland
2. This was then included with the behaviour of Hungary being similar, yet parrallels with France being offered as to milking the system
3. You don't think their is a conflict and ask for an explanation.
4.Me, being a common citizen, seems to know more about a corrupt policy, than an educator? That's quite scarey really.

But rant off if you want. If GP has said the same as me, would you believe it? (he has in fact done so).
But still you rant on because my explanation makes you uncomfortable. You really do sound like Blair you know.

[ramAnag]

Wow that's a rant.

1. The topic was EU discontent in Poland
2. This was then included with the behaviour of Hungary being similar, yet parrallels with France being offered as to milking the system
3. You don't think their is a conflict and ask for an explanation.
4.Me, being a common citizen, seems to know more about a corrupt policy, than an educator? That's quite scarey really.

But rant off if you want. If GP has said the same as me, would you believe it? (he has in fact done so).
But still you rant on because my explanation makes you uncomfortable. You really do sound like Blair you know.

I think you and I have different concepts of the word ‘rant’.
It was a clarification...because you clearly hadn’t understood my stance and so, as ever, sought to make one up.
Your topic may have been ‘discontent in Poland’...I have never mentioned Poland and simply politely asked GP to explain his point about France.
He still hasn’t really, but doubtless will. In the meantime you, as ever, have avoided issues you’re uncomfortable with and tried to make things personal.