OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Okay...the entente cordiale is alive and well and Brexit hasn’t jeopardised our relationship with our European neighbours at all, least of all the French.
Neither is there going to be a recession, our Prime Minister is a paragon of virtue and truth telling, the Transport Secretary is a genius and the ‘levelling up’ strategy is working perfectly. Back in the real world....

You're being over-partisan/over sensitive again rA, 'our' relationship with, for instance, France, ebbs and flows. Politically, and in the eyes of the media-influenced, it may look daggers drawn, and I accept bureaucratic burdens are currently higher (see below), but at a working level (no disrespect but I guess that now excludes yourself), hard working, pragmatic, eyes on the prize individuals are just getting on with things. I've just helped, in a small way, resolve some cross-border issues which allow French and Belgian musicians to visit UK for some gigs later this year and for two DJs to work in a resort in Spain. I don't think there was a single reference to Brexit or deteriorating intra-country relationships throughout the transactions.

Sticking to my non-partisan viewpoint, I'll actually go further than you and say most of our administration appear ****ing useless, but 'we the people' gave them 5 years and I'll take my ultimate view on supporting them further after 4 years and 364 days, not day 1.

[Andy_Faber]

rA was on the right lines with the irony of UK passports being manufactured by the Polish branch of a French company, both of which are in the EU that the UK just left.....

Is there much manufacturing left in the UK? Pre 2014, the Scottish shipyards were "promised" orders to build new Royal Navy ships. After that and other [scratch] lies [/scratch] promises were broken following the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the Scots seem to have finally learned not to trust a word that comes out of Westminster and in October next year I'm sure there will be a majority vote to leave the Union and England will be the one to suffer IMO. Only last week a senior Tory said in an interview that England couldn't afford Scotland gaining independence.

I remember in another thread some time back I commented that globalisation needed reversing because more and more money, and the political power that comes with it, was ending up in ever fewer pockets. The total wealth of billionaires is said to have doubled in the past 2 years. The poor have got poorer and there are even more of them. I truly believe the time for a political revolution is here and unless there is a new movement which does more for the poor and the "working class" and the "middle class" and forces the rich and the multinationals to pay tax rather than evading it, we shall all become slaves to the few (if we're not already there, many people worldwide working 50 odd years, making money for the bosses and still having absolutely nothing themselves).

I'm not against people being innovative, taking a risk and making money at it. It provides work but let's look at who produces the wealth of the 1%. Elon Musk has made billions out of Tesla. The basis is the batteries and computer chips used in the cars. Mined by kids on a dollar or two a day. There is no fairness in that situation and a lot that is morally reprehensible.

Time for the revolution.

Strong stuff MA, and I have to admit I'm too 'fat and happy' to do anything about it (revolution), but what in actual fact are you doing about it? what is anyone? I see a lot of such fighting talk on social media from folk who I have no doubt don't lift finger one towards such change in the world order - on my extensive facebook 'friends' list I only have one 'true' activist who backs up his words with significant action

I actually agree that globalisation needs reversing, but for the sake of saving resources not wealth equality. I may get the countries wrong here, but there was a news item last week about a UK-growable fruit product on a UK supermarket shelf that had ben grown in Peru and packed in the Phillipines. That just has to be wrong

Don't agree at all about the relative health of Scotland and the rest of UK if they gain independence, not sure where you get the idea that any 'vote' would be binding, the SNP currently have no idea either

[ramAnag]

You're being over-partisan/over sensitive again rA, 'our' relationship with, for instance, France, ebbs and flows. Politically, and in the eyes of the media-influenced, it may look daggers drawn, and I accept bureaucratic burdens are currently higher (see below), but at a working level (no disrespect but I guess that now excludes yourself), hard working, pragmatic, eyes on the prize individuals are just getting on with things. I've just helped, in a small way, resolve some cross-border issues which allow French and Belgian musicians to visit UK for some gigs later this year and for two DJs to work in a resort in Spain. I don't think there was a single reference to Brexit or deteriorating intra-country relationships throughout the transactions.

Sticking to my non-partisan viewpoint, I'll actually go further than you and say most of our administration appear ****ing useless, but 'we the people' gave them 5 years and I'll take my ultimate view on supporting them further after 4 years and 364 days, not day 1.

All well and good, Andy...but it isn’t ‘day 1’ is it? It’s over 1000 days since Johnson came to power and around 4500 since the Tories took power in the odious shape of Cameron.

‘We the people’, well a proportion of us/them, may have ‘given them five years’, but what choice did we have?
I’d guess MA is referring to a thoughtful ‘revolution’ rather than a ‘let’s man the barricades and hang the rich’ type business. He seems a responsible, if justifiably angry, type of chap to me and I for one agree with him, but what can we actually do other than spread the word, draw attention to the chaos and contradiction and encourage people to think? What, for instance, does your ‘activist’ friend actually do?

‘Over sensitive and over partisan’. Really...how so? Only a blind man on a galloping horse would fail to see the deterioration in our relationship with our nearest neighbours and surely you wouldn’t have been called upon to help French and Belgian musicians visiting this country and DJ’s visiting Spain at all had it not been for the post Brexit complications. I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, but I doubt your ‘cross-border issues’ existed prior to Brexit so whether it was mentioned or not is somewhat immaterial.

[Trickytreesreds]

I do love this, our relationship with France is suffering stance.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH FRANCE, EXCEPT WHEN IT SUITS THE FRENCH

They have stabbed us in the back through the years, from blocking our entry into the "common market lol", to dodgy dealings with the Argies when British servicemen were dying.

The time is long gone, when we slug it out with the French, but don't anyone delude themselves that the French are our friends. They aint.

[MadAmster]

Strong stuff MA, and I have to admit I'm too 'fat and happy' to do anything about it (revolution), but what in actual fact are you doing about it? what is anyone? I see a lot of such fighting talk on social media from folk who I have no doubt don't lift finger one towards such change in the world order - on my extensive facebook 'friends' list I only have one 'true' activist who backs up his words with significant action

I actually agree that globalisation needs reversing, but for the sake of saving resources not wealth equality. I may get the countries wrong here, but there was a news item last week about a UK-growable fruit product on a UK supermarket shelf that had ben grown in Peru and packed in the Phillipines. That just has to be wrong

Don't agree at all about the relative health of Scotland and the rest of UK if they gain independence, not sure where you get the idea that any 'vote' would be binding, the SNP currently have no idea either

Numerous quotes from senior Tories in the run up to the Brexit vote saying it's preposterous that a country can't leave an alliance without permission from the other members..... If that was the case for the UK/EU, surely, the same should be true for Scotland/UK?

The UN has resolutions to which Westminster is party on the matter so their main recourse will be breaking International Law again.

Scotland would keep ALL of the taxes generated and that includes a lot that is currently designated English tax because it goes through English ports, nor Scottish ones.

[MadAmster]

I do love this, our relationship with France is suffering stance.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH FRANCE, EXCEPT WHEN IT SUITS THE FRENCH

They have stabbed us in the back through the years, from blocking our entry into the "common market lol", to dodgy dealings with the Argies when British servicemen were dying.

The time is long gone, when we slug it out with the French, but don't anyone delude themselves that the French are our friends. They aint.

IIRC, it was a French made Exocet missile which sank the Sheffield and cost 4 friends of mine their lives when it sank.

Made by Aerospatiale which was was a French state-owned aerospace manufacturer that built both civilian and military aircraft, rockets and satellites. It was originally known as Société nationale industrielle aérospatiale (SNIAS). Its head office was in the 16th arrondissement of Paris.

[Trickytreesreds]

IIRC, it was a French made Exocet missile which sank the Sheffield and cost 4 friends of mine their lives when it sank.

Made by Aerospatiale which was was a French state-owned aerospace manufacturer that built both civilian and military aircraft, rockets and satellites. It was originally known as Société nationale industrielle aérospatiale (SNIAS). Its head office was in the 16th arrondissement of Paris.

In essence the Argies having those missiles wasn't my anger.
My anger was the fact France had snook technicians into Argentina to service them and cobble together as much as possible on the QT.
Scum bags, friends my arse.

[MadAmster]

They've never forgiven us for winning at Waterloo in 1815 that led to Belgium being formed in 1830 and them therefore losing a wedge of France.

[ramAnag]

IIRC, it was a French made Exocet missile which sank the Sheffield and cost 4 friends of mine their lives when it sank.

Made by Aerospatiale which was was a French state-owned aerospace manufacturer that built both civilian and military aircraft, rockets and satellites. It was originally known as Société nationale industrielle aérospatiale (SNIAS). Its head office was in the 16th arrondissement of Paris.

Not wishing to intrude on private grief MA...but tbf the (5 I think) French made Exocet missile’s were sold to Argentina long before their Falkland strategy became apparent.

It’s another case of stones and glass houses imo...I mean, we’re none to choosy about who we manufacture and provide arms for.

Have to say I holidayed in France many times in the nineties and noughties including supporting a number of school trips. Apart from one aggressive prat, who had a go at me for taking up too much space at a petrol pump (I had) and blaming it on me being English (totally irrelevant), I’ve not experienced anything other than welcoming courtesy and a little bit of harmlessly funny and entirely justified piss taking regarding the limitations of my French.

[Trickytreesreds]

Not wishing to intrude on private grief MA...but tbf the (5 I think) French made Exocet missile’s were sold to Argentina long before their Falkland strategy became apparent.

It’s another case of stones and glass houses imo...I mean, we’re none to choosy about who we manufacture and provide arms for.

Have to say I holidayed in France many times in the nineties and noughties including supporting a number of school trips. Apart from one aggressive prat, who had a go at me for taking up too much space at a petrol pump (I had) and blaming it on me being English (totally irrelevant), I’ve not experienced anything other than welcoming courtesy and a little bit of harmlessly funny and entirely justified piss taking regarding the limitations of my French.

You are correct RA.
That wasn't my beef either.
But after the invasion, the Argies were clobbered with arms embargos and NATO were furious.
But that didn't stop the French repairing what they had and cobbling together some spares to keep it that way.
The lives of Sheffield and Atlantic conveyor are on their heads.
Allies my back side. The French do whats right for the French and that includes their EU membership as well.