Is this the end?

[samrnpage@hotmail.com]

No you actually understand the seriousness of what's happened and the important issues to be addressed. The other posters focusing on media conspiracies are suffering from cognitive dissonance caused by a) tribal loyalty b) lack of moral courage and c) lack of intellect.

Thanks!! At least someone gets me! Maybe its too hard for some people to accept the seriousness of what has happened at our football club, easier to focus on the media "bullies".

[thnhouse]

Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say you find this a convincing line-of-argument - or are you just yanking my chain?

Of course I can, because there's an actual cohesive argument behind it based on the information we've been given.

As yet we've not had any evidence suggesting Gradi initiated a cover up at Crewe.

[thnhouse]

Oh no they don't follow the scandal nearly as much as I have, they pick up on the BBC sport/sky sports etc. However they are massive football fans and do go on our twitter/site ever since this scandal has happened. However they are entitled to their opinion that they were shocked that our whole social media pages are purely focusing on the fact the club is being "Victimised" by the media.

But their opinion isn’t based on all the information, everyone’s entitled to an opinion but not everyone’s entitled to be right and the only opinions I listen to are informed ones.
There’s a guy in the town centre who’s been shouting that the sheep are made of cheese and the police are trying to kill him, everyone’s entitled to an opinion right?

Our club is being investigated by the FA, FIFA, Cheshire police, Internally and by the media. Yet our fans think this is wrong.

I’ve not seen one Crewe fan on here who doesn’t welcome the investigation.

Dario himself has got stuff to answer for, hes being personally investigated by the FA for the rumours that have come about

No he isn’t, he’s been asked to give evidence in the investigation about Chelsea.

Here are some facts that Crewe fans are overlooking and I would love a discussion with someone about:

Dario is just a man, not above being treated any differently just because he is a club legend. I am almost certain he is innocent (purely based off the fact I like the guy), but there are rumours that need to be investigated. Crewe fans need to accept that he MIGHT NOT BE INNOCENT. Hard to take, but that is a fact, until it is investigated, Crewe fans need to stop acting like he is squeaky clean because he isnt. (Whether he knew about it or not, kids were abused when he was the manager of the academy, he has to answer for that, as for the other rumours down in London, I think they are lies but no smoke no fire whatever....). The judges/investigations will find out.

He might be guilty, there’s only a few people that know the answer to that. To me there needs to be actual evidence that he took a decision making role in a cover up before I condemn the man.

IF the club did discuss bennell at board level (which is true In my opinion because why would the director come out and lie?) and all they did was stop kids going to his house, then the club grossly mismanaged that situation and will be punished either by Civil law(compensation) or criminal law.

It almost certainly did get discussed at board level when Hamilton Smith raised it and I really believe that this is where the club mismanaged the situation and the club is certainly in danger of legal action if it is found to be negligent. Why didn’t the club raise an official investigation at this point is the key question in all of this?

The abuse happened for years. This is the biggest point for me. If it happened once to one kid, I can accept the club taking almost non of the blame. This happened for years. 4 years , 100s of times to more than one kid. How the heck did Crewe alexandra miss that? Miss it? Horrifically ignorant if anything and ignorance is a breach of duty of care. The club will have to answer for it. IF THE CLUB KNEW OR HEARD OF AND DID NOTHING.....that is something our club deserves nothing but to fold for.

As yet there’s no information suggesting a formal allegation had ever been raised, just anecdotal evidence of people “suspecting” and rumours. It’s also worth reading the articles on Bennell and his ability at manipulation. You only need to look as far as Woodwards parents to see a family who missed it right under their noses to the point where he was going to marry their daughter.

There are some people at the club still here from the days the abuse happened. Which to me is why the club is being cagey as it is. People at our club could be legally involved with everything. Thats why it was easy for Chelsea to come out and say its sorry etc, totally different board/owner. All they had to do was "Sorry, hes some money, we will investigate to make sure it never happens again" and done and dusted.

The reason why Chelsea had to come out was because they’d been 100% proven to have tried to cover this up with hush money. All the evidence suggests they knew in the 70’s and paid to cover it up as recently as 2015.

I really want a discussion with a single Crewe fan on social media, debating all these facts/rumours and what they could mean

Obviously there’s not a single Crewe fan who isn’t appalled by the horrific treatment of the young boys in our care by Bennell, and I’m 100% sure that every Crewe fan will be behind the investigation into how the club handled it.
Do I believe that Gradi is involved in a cover up? No, none of the current evidence suggests that he was, but I’ll be willing to change my mind based on the information the investigation finds and if he was he should be punished.

I’m still angry at the clubs treatment by the media though, but mostly because the coverage of Chelsea , QPR, Southampton, Leeds, Celtic and Newcastle seems fairly minor compared to the coverage Crewe received. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy , just that we happened to be the first ones to hit the press. The problem is the archaic slow and un media savvy way we handled this. A club statement should have been out quicker and been a lot more friendly to the victims.

[bigroof]

No you actually understand the seriousness of what's happened and the important issues to be addressed. The other posters focusing on media conspiracies are suffering from cognitive dissonance caused by a) tribal loyalty b) lack of moral courage and c) lack of intellect.

Not sure that claiming intellectual superiority is going to help your argument, ojprice. Going back to your original post, you claim that people at the club "must have known". This is the nub of the matter surely: no one can say that for certain. It was interesting, on Victoria Derbyshire's programme, when she asked each of the four ex-players if they thought that people "knew", when the camera was on Steve Walters, he said, after what seemed a long silence, "I don't know".
Similar questions could be asked of those at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, and the BBC.
Bennell, and his ilk, surely operate meticulously, ever-careful to cover their tracks, and deceitful in what they say to others, especially those in authority who they feel are in the best position to possibly discover their actions. It may seem incredible now, that his crimes could go undetected, but there really was less of a culture of suspicion back then, than there obviously is these days.
As far as our club is concerned, those directors still around will know what was said. Dario is obviously in the eye of the storm. The inquiry – independent – will discover more than we can possibly know from drip-fed media clips and articles; we really do have to wait.

[ojprice]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/spo...itch-hunt.html


'Consumed by a peculiar form of self-pity. Some at Crewe think they're the real victims here... of a witch-hunt.' Writes Oliver Holt

[ojprice]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/spo...itch-hunt.html


'Consumed by a peculiar form of self-pity. Some at Crewe think they're the real victims here... of a witch-hunt.' Writes Oliver Holt

It's just so shameful, no apology to victims, no display of solidarity with victims, no protest against the leadership, just sullen resentment that the media have brought these appalling events to light. A previous poster had it right hear no evil, see no evil - the bystander complex is clearly deeply embedded both in the club culture and the culture of the fans. The club's fans seem psychologically ill-equipped to respond to the scandal in a manner that is anything approaching human. It makes the club and the town look small, parochial, uncaring and anachronistic - have you seen the movie dogville with Nicole Kidman or Straw Dogs with Dustin Hoffman - like that. This is 2016, it is no longer acceptable to deal with this issue in this manner.

[thnhouse]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/spo...itch-hunt.html


'Consumed by a peculiar form of self-pity. Some at Crewe think they're the real victims here... of a witch-hunt.' Writes Oliver Holt

There's a big difference to feeling like the press are focusing on your club and to believing we're the real victims, but you expect that type of hyperbole in the Mail

When Chelsea have been proven to have been actively covering it up that this happened as recently as 2015, to have Newcastle players come out and talk about the extent of their abuse and for it come out that Southampton have a coach the FA have known about for years, for the focus to still feel like it's on Crewe is a bit unfair.
I don't believe in a conspiracy much more than they have much more skilled media teams and a lot more influence over the media to control how it comes out.

[Furberstreet]

Given the huge number of clubs now implicated, the Board probably hoped it could circle the wagons and wait until the storm blew over. However, while there are now 90+ clubs implicated, DG's suspension by the FA has brought the focus back on to both Crewe and particularly Chelsea. I do not doubt the willingness of the Press to twist any story to find an angle, but specific issues are now being aired and have to be addressed.

[RenegadeDS]

Whilst it's a tad unfair that all the media circus has been focused on us, as a club without the money or power to do anything about it, the fact remains that one of the figureheads of our entire history is being implicated in a scandal. Obviously we don't know the results of any investigations as they are ongoing, but we're bound to be at the forefront because Dario Gradi is and always will be synonymous with Crewe. There were some vile and vicious things done to players whilst they were at Crewe (amongst others) and if it's a deeper seeded problem than we already knew about, any investigation of ANY individuals can only be a good thing. I hope to god that the investigation doesn't show that Dario was in the wrong, but if it turns out that he was and the problem is eradicated as a result then it's justified. Crewe won't fall because of it - our reputation has and will take a hit, but if that's what is necessary to ensure that young players are safeguarded then the media circus will have come out with the correct result.

[samrnpage@hotmail.com]

Whilst it's a tad unfair that all the media circus has been focused on us, as a club without the money or power to do anything about it, the fact remains that one of the figureheads of our entire history is being implicated in a scandal. Obviously we don't know the results of any investigations as they are ongoing, but we're bound to be at the forefront because Dario Gradi is and always will be synonymous with Crewe. There were some vile and vicious things done to players whilst they were at Crewe (amongst others) and if it's a deeper seeded problem than we already knew about, any investigation of ANY individuals can only be a good thing. I hope to god that the investigation doesn't show that Dario was in the wrong, but if it turns out that he was and the problem is eradicated as a result then it's justified. Crewe won't fall because of it - our reputation has and will take a hit, but if that's what is necessary to ensure that young players are safeguarded then the media circus will have come out with the correct result.

Very good post.