Do you know what?

[itwasin]

Could not attend the game and would certainly be a voyeur if the comments were strictly about yesterday's game. Artell has said 2-3 players could be moved out and I did wonder whether the team selection indicated that Dagnall and Davis would be two of the candidates. Hollands and Bingham were my other candidates. Bingham is never fit and Hollands has not done as well as I thought he might. Chesterfield and Walsall were reportedly interested in Davis during the summer. He is a decent player, but has been a regular in a defence that has shipped goals galore. I think that this is a golden opportunity for Ray to play to his undoubted quality and cut out the unforced errors. Also, when is Saunders going to be given the opportunity to prove he is up to scratch as a first team player? Once again, we could only score one goal. Are Saunders and Udoh the answer? We will have no real idea unless they are given the opportunity.

How many Opportunity they want it comes down to plain facts there not good enough Saunders has had chance after chance. Ship him Out! Along with Cooper. Who the he'll would want to buy any of them,they been at the club now for year,and no progress. And No Goals.

[thnhouse]

Overall first half was much better, a lot more drive and creativity. Conceding that goal before half really cost us, you could see heads dropping. I was disappointed in the amount of times someone got the ball in midfield and no one was busting a gut to get forward.

Couldn't figure out why Cooper was on the right it just meant when he beat his man down the line he was struggling to get it across and there was no point cutting inside and crossing against a deep defence with no target man.

I thought Hollands was awful, really ineffective at breaking play up and looked off the pace in general.

Ray looked good, but he really should have been better placed for their 2nd goal.

Kiwomya looked unsure of his role, didn't seem to know which man to be picking up or where to be running in attack.

Liked Kirk being the link man for midfield and attack, just didn't think he had a particularly good day doing it, his first touch seemed pretty off and at times he just didn't think quick enough.

[gazan]

It's amazing how people can see different things in a match! I thought Hollands had one of his best games ever - only very occasionally passing square or back. I also thought the closing down was brilliant though this did fall off in the second half (fitness levels??) The last 15 minutes revealed the naivety in the team. George C does brilliantly beating his markers down the wing but then spoils it all by chipping the ball in the air - how many times did our attacks end like that??? will someone at the club please explain this to him???. We need to keep both wingers on their natural side and head for the dead ball line and playing the low hard cross.
Our goal also showed the other approach we should be using much often- running straight through the opposition and setting up through balls for runners in the channels. We have at least 3 (possibly 4 after Guthrie's display yesterday!) players who are able to carry the ball.
I also thought James Jones had a good game strong in the tackle and able to keep the ball -reminiscent of Murphy.
Oh and one other thing - Something I thought I'd never hear myself say - George Ray was brilliant! Traditional no-nonsense defending (though yes he did get caught out for the 1st!)

[MikeSB]

I didn't go and so no point in me posting anything about the game. But if we are not creating chances as we appear not to when we see maybe only one or two goal efforts in 90 mins, somebody has forgotten the basic principles of the game. Is that down to how the game is taught nowadays? If so they need to rewrite the coaching manual. The pitches are better, the ball is lighter, the players are fitter or supposed to be? and so have we anyone that can shoot from distances anymore like Bobby Charlton used to from 20-30 yards out?

There is something wrong with a club that can afford to pay a dozen coaches but can't afford to buy in a decent Striker!

The problem is if you try and teach kids and ****agers to pass the ball the whole time, then that is what they try and will do. My friends lad who is at the academy and is around 16 was playing in a youth match in a midfield role and DG shouted to him to pass the ball when he was surging forward and but he kept going and scored from 20 yards and so maybe I'm never far wrong in my view of coaches destroying natural ability. It was Leeds and Don Revie teams in the 70's that started the 'keep' the ball attitude and stop the others scoring and breaking away to score the odd goal to win the game. It was when the five forward line disappeared in favour of the one or two lone striker role and teams then lying very deep without going over the half way line...Holding midfield position? What the hell is that?

I keep getting told the game has changed and we now need all these academies to 'teach' and 'coach' the game...

Really!

Ah well, no real surprise just one or two chances created then!

Maybe I will tell you about the time I scored 3 goals in the first half of a game and I was playing right half at the time...right midfield to you....There was never a game I was involved in where I wasn't looking to shoot at goal but then I didn't have any coaching or someone screaming to 'pass' the ball...It just 'instinctive' you know!

Apologies to anyone that says I have gone OT btw!

[somersetcrewe]

...Holding midfield position? What the hell is that?

Ah ha!
At last, something we *can* agree on!

Anyone know when this "position" came into being?
For me it was when Claude Makelele was being lauded at Chelsea but I've no doubt it was before that.

A holding (or central defensive) midfielder is there to protect the back 4 - but why?
They're bloody defenders, can't they do it themselves?
Just gives me an image of a big guy protecting 4 quivering wrecks behind him!
If 4 can't do the defensive job, what makes them think that 5 can?

[MikeSB]

Ah ha!
At last, something we *can* agree on!

Anyone know when this "position" came into being?
For me it was when Claude Makelele was being lauded at Chelsea but I've no doubt it was before that.

A holding (or central defensive) midfielder is there to protect the back 4 - but why?
They're bloody defenders, can't they do it themselves?
Just gives me an image of a big guy protecting 4 quivering wrecks behind him!
If 4 can't do the defensive job, what makes them think that 5 can?

Morning mate...aye, good question..again!

Methods and things change and mostly for the better hopefully but looking at the basics is generally a good idea and so football was set up and lasted what a hundred years with a GK, two full backs, a centre half, right half, left half and then five forwards which gives the indication that there were FIVE players who were attack minded and the wing halves supporting attack and defence and generally a big centre half to put ths skids under any CF that fancied his chances...
That position was always a dominant and indeed crucial one...remember Jackie Charlton who played for Englandand Dave Ewing who played for Crewe anyone? Eric Barnes?

Now, people will now argue you cannot revert back to this because teams are now 'defensive' minded with nine men now behind the ball and the lone striker and so how would that work? But sometimes you see teams that are one down throw everything up front to try and get back into the game and then you ask, "why couldn't we do that from the first minute"?

Anyway, Its going OT again, sorry..

[RenegadeDS]

Ah ha!
At last, something we *can* agree on!

Anyone know when this "position" came into being?
For me it was when Claude Makelele was being lauded at Chelsea but I've no doubt it was before that.

A holding (or central defensive) midfielder is there to protect the back 4 - but why?
They're bloody defenders, can't they do it themselves?
Just gives me an image of a big guy protecting 4 quivering wrecks behind him!
If 4 can't do the defensive job, what makes them think that 5 can?

A holding midfielder is usually someone more adept with the ball at their feet and designed to intercept passes between the opposition midfield and their strikers. It isn't about being an additional defender - it's about allowing the defence to actually defend, by marking their player and positioning themselves to make tackles should the strikers receive the ball, rather than having to defend higher up the pitch and potentially allowing strikers in behind them. It's an extra way of pressuring the opposition midfield into giving the ball away and allows for faster counter attacks because (in theory) the pass interceptions are performed by someone who sits higher and is better with the ball.

[somersetcrewe]

A holding midfielder is usually someone more adept with the ball at their feet and designed to intercept passes between the opposition midfield and their strikers. It isn't about being an additional defender - it's about allowing the defence to actually defend, by marking their player and positioning themselves to make tackles should the strikers receive the ball, rather than having to defend higher up the pitch and potentially allowing strikers in behind them. It's an extra way of pressuring the opposition midfield into giving the ball away and allows for faster counter attacks because (in theory) the pass interceptions are performed by someone who sits higher and is better with the ball.

Yep, fair point well made ........... VERY well made actually, are you a coach??

It just annoys the hell out of me when so much importance is attached to them, just comes across as so negative.
But the truth of the matter is that, the way the game is played these days, most matches are won or lost in midfield anyway!! (which also probably explains our demise since Westy and Murph left)

[MikeSB]

A holding midfielder is usually someone more adept with the ball at their feet and designed to intercept passes between the opposition midfield and their strikers. It isn't about being an additional defender - it's about allowing the defence to actually defend, by marking their player and positioning themselves to make tackles should the strikers receive the ball, rather than having to defend higher up the pitch and potentially allowing strikers in behind them. It's an extra way of pressuring the opposition midfield into giving the ball away and allows for faster counter attacks because (in theory) the pass interceptions are performed by someone who sits higher and is better with the ball.

Amazing init!

I did all that and more when I played right half and not a soul taught me how....

People that used to cut toe nails are called what nowadays?

[out0lunch]

Shame you never had any coaching Mike you may have ended playing professionally instead of the back of the park
Which teams did you play for as I assume we will remember this dashing, goal scoring right half !