Sixtus

[oldcolner]

BT
You will like Fellow Marxist Richard Burgon who appeared on Question Time.
The QT audience didnt.
The policy for benefits for the self employed was also torpedoed.
Enjoy!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0da2c731e8ceb

[oldcolner]

Patent nonsense.

It is not a binary decision as you well know - but Rees-Mogg said it was.

If it was as simple as he says it is then there would be no need for any Brexit negotiations (except our divorce bill)- we would just wave goodbye.

Politicians like him are just pulling the wool over YOUR eyes and attempting to appease a certain section of the public.

The decision is were out. The question is how much do the EU want us to work together and share products, because if they want to play hard, their products will be more expensive and difficult to supply here and they export more to us than we do to them. If they want to control us and our borders then their hard line will make us leave. It's also about what to we pay for access to the bits of the EU we want. If it's a hard line they take demanding £100bn then they have a big hole in their budget if we walk away. It's about who makes our laws and having aParliament that runs the country and being able to deal with the rest of the world.
Finally it's about controlling our borders hopefully affording the EU residents here British citizenship and vice verse, and given EU residents wanting to come here in future the same rights as anyone from the rest of the world.

That's what the negotiations are about and the hard lines are coming from them not us.
They know we are out but are desperate to keep us in for selfish reasons and a hard line is their tactic to achieve that .
Will they see sense, I don't know and if they don't then we will walk away.

[1959_60]

Sorry Oldcolner, but Rees-Mogg suggested that it was very simple. OUT of the single market, OUT of the customs union and OUT of the ECJ.
That is his opinion and the opinion of quite a few people.
If that is our stance then there is nothing to negotiate about.

Regarding free movement...well, that would be entirely up to us. And they could do the same to us. We would be able to keep everyone out or cherry pick who we let in - no need for negotiations.

The thing is that it is NOT a binary decision. You know as well as I do that there are many different scenarios on the outcome so for him to suggest that it is a binary IN or OUT is simply playing to the gallery.

As for the EU playing hard ball...can I remind you that it was OUR decision to leave. If we wish to cherry pick some things that we like then in no way will that work. We cannot expect to keep all the benefits of being inside the EU and just ditch the bits that we don't like. How on earth do you expect the EU to agree with that?

[sinkov]

Patent nonsense.

It is not a binary decision as you well know - but Rees-Mogg said it was.

If it was as simple as he says it is then there would be no need for any Brexit negotiations (except our divorce bill)- we would just wave goodbye.

Politicians like him are just pulling the wool over YOUR eyes and attempting to appease a certain section of the public.

Good morning 59-60. Of course it was a binary decision, my ballot paper gave me two choices, Leave/Remain, you can't get more binary than that, did yours give you other options ? And you know full well we can't just 'walk away', but the fact that there are a million and one things to be sorted, and we're in a period of negotiation over the terms of our leaving doesn't negate the fact that it was a binary decision.

I am full of admiration for a thought process that can transform a desire to implement the democratic decision of the British electorate into an 'attempt to appease a certain section of the public'. Very LibDem, which is probably why they got their backsides kicked again in the GE, fighting last year's battle again was never going to be successful, even Jeremy had more sense than that.

[SmedDUm]

What an edifying thread, well done you Burnley boys!
Hope your team is as switched-on as your posters!

[sinkov]

As for the EU playing hard ball...can I remind you that it was OUR decision to leave. If we wish to cherry pick some things that we like then in no way will that work. We cannot expect to keep all the benefits of being inside the EU and just ditch the bits that we don't like. How on earth do you expect the EU to agree with that?

Hallelujah, just what I've been saying all along, as has the EU, as has Theresa May bless her, no cherry picking, we leave the Single Market and the Customs Union. Has the penny finally dropped for the Remoanians, there's no point whingeing about a so called Hard Brexit, that's the only sort of Brexit on offer from the EU, the only sort of Brexit that ensures we do actually leave the EU. God it's hard work.

[sinkov]

I voted to leave, the referendum result must be carried out. Why is May still fannying about?

Daft picture time...

Attachment 5260

BT, mon ami, you do post some childish pictures as I regularly point out, but I love this one. It almost makes her seem human, I've tapped up worse back in the day on grab a granny night out. Usually late on though after a scoop or two.

[1959_60]

Hello Oldcolner!

Yes, of course the referendum was a binary choice. No one is saying otherwise. And the people made their choice. No arguments about any of that.

The discussion has moved on to a more "hard Brexit" v "soft Brexit" discussion.

Last night Rees-Mogg stated that "we are either in or out." There should be no discussions. And, according to him, "Out" means out of the single market, customs union and ECJ. Thats fine, and many agree with him. But if this is the case then there would be no need for any negotiations (apart from our divorce bill).
We could simply cut all ties and walk away now.

But...as you are aware...it is NOT a binary decision. Many people wish to retain ties with the EU and hence it is not a clean break as he suggested.
There are many options for how we wish to continue dealing with the EU - Rees-Mogg suggested otherwise - and many people seem to agree with him.

[sinkov]

59-60, I didn't see the programme so I've no idea what he actually said. There are obviously so many things to negotiate, so many loose ends to be tied up, so many deals to be done where we continue to work together that no person with any intelligence whatsoever could suggest we can simply walk away without any further discussion. I find it hard to believe that's what he was saying, but if he did say that then he's clearly wrong, so wrong he needs sectioning.

[oldcolner]

Hi 59-60
Amazing what Sixtus has done!
I think we are after the same thing just arguing about the starting point which is binary and we are out.
Negotiations will determine how much they and we want to co-operate for the greater good or if we wish to tear the hearts out of each other's economy for principles.
What is the best we can do to share markets with minimum penalty to both sides.
I think immigration is about control of borders and immigrants and the EU seems to be shifting on that with Austria acting to stop people entering unfettered from Italy. It seems Eastern Europe is now booming so there will be fewer Poles coming here as there are plenty of jobs there.
What conditions and payment is acceptable for market access, Norway pays
Where do the European Courts and Bank regulate us as a result.
So lots to negotiate on our exit.

But their agenda is to drive such a hard bargain we decide to stay. Some folk will cave in like they did in Greece and Ireland.

If we do let's be clear (as all politicians claim to be ) reentry will not be on the same terms, nor is the EU the organisation we left, the civil servants have grand designs for a European state, a European army and it will be controlled by Germany with us paying a lot more for it and having less say.