"Dash for Diesel"

[sinkov]

I don't understand that point Sinkov.

We are definitely leaving the EU on 29th March 2019. Even though, as you say, many politicians think it is a mistake.

You have got your way.

The Brexiteers are now in two separate camps.

There are those who STILL believe that we should be getting a better deal from the EU than the one we have currently (obviously this is never going to happen).

And there are those who want to cut all ties with the EU and simply walk away - and without paying our divorce bill. This hardly makes us look like honest brokers, does it?

But stop fretting. We ARE leaving.

I think it was Peter Hitchens who described it best, he said we were never enthusiatic members of the EU, we didn't join the Euro, and with all the opt-outs and rebates we had negotiated, in reality we were sort of half in and half out. What the Remoanians are actively aiming for, and with the vast majority of the establishment, the politicians and the civil service being Remoanians they have a fair chance of succeeding, is a situation where we are half out and half in.

We ARE nowhere near out, already the point has been conceded that at the end of the the two years there should be a further two year transition period when we will still be paying billions into the EU and subject to their laws. Do not underestimate the power and determination of the British establishment and political class to preserve the status quo as far as they can, this is far from over.

Straight after the referendum I said the battle had only just begun, and the biggest difficulty in achieving Brexit would be found not in Brussels but here in the UK. Everything that's happened since has proved me right.

[1959_60]

Good debate! But we are never going to agree are we? I think our coalition would end up like the current German one.

It seems like you believe that Brexit SHOULD achieve,

Continue to trade with the EU exactly like we are currently.

Retain membership of all the various EU bodies (REACH, Euratom, Erasmus etc)

Retain all the EU laws without scrutiny

(Not sure about your thoughts on the Irish border)

Retain all intelligence sharing with the EU

Not be forced to pay our full divorce bill.

Not have to pay any future running costs of the EU.

Leave the ECJ and have the House of Lords be the final arbiter on our laws. (Can you give me examples of poor decisions made by the ECJ? I can give you loads of examples of bad rulings made by the Lords)

Restrict free movement to/from the EU (this is actually in our gift now. But we have never implemented it)

By the way, half of the current immigrants come from outside the EU. Since the Brexit vote NOTHING has been done to limit these people from coming to Britain. And there is no public outcry about this. I find that odd.

If you really think that Brexit should look like I have suggested above then it seems to me that nothing substantial will have changed.

[sinkov]

Good debate! But we are never going to agree are we? I think our coalition would end up like the current German one.

It seems like you believe that Brexit SHOULD achieve,

Continue to trade with the EU exactly like we are currently.

Retain membership of all the various EU bodies (REACH, Euratom, Erasmus etc)

Retain all the EU laws without scrutiny

(Not sure about your thoughts on the Irish border)

Retain all intelligence sharing with the EU

Not be forced to pay our full divorce bill.

Not have to pay any future running costs of the EU.

Leave the ECJ and have the House of Lords be the final arbiter on our laws. (Can you give me examples of poor decisions made by the ECJ? I can give you loads of examples of bad rulings made by the Lords)

Restrict free movement to/from the EU (this is actually in our gift now. But we have never implemented it)

By the way, half of the current immigrants come from outside the EU. Since the Brexit vote NOTHING has been done to limit these people from coming to Britain. And there is no public outcry about this. I find that odd.

If you really think that Brexit should look like I have suggested above then it seems to me that nothing substantial will have changed.

The missus says it's time to get off my backside and take her to Tescos for the weekly shop, otherwise there's nowt for my tea. So I'll have to answer your points later. But I do have time to say I don't expect us to trade with the EU exactly as we do now, that's not possible, we need to negotiate a deal that is beneficial to both sides. This is so self evidently in both our interests that I remain bemused at the sheer intransigence of the EU in refusing to even discuss it.