Please go now, Artell

[MikeSB]

Everyone looks back and sees some part of his/her life with rose-tinted spectacles. My memories of 1970s football were that it was exciting but the tackling was horrific at times and players did not get the protection they do now to display their skills. I certainly agree that, for years, Crewe have been awful at throw ins, and I have never understood why we always brought everyone back to defend free kicks and corners. I fully agree with Gobstopper on Dario's influence. He achieved great things at Crewe and you played his way or you were out of the first XI.

Yes, we all see things differently and that is good, that is how it should be. The tackling was just how it was and why academy kids just could not compete with that style of play and even have difficulty now and men vs boys is said on occasion. I wouldn't go to any PL game for free and most of them are big buggers aren't they. Oddly my next door neighbour is a ManC ST Holder for years and years and even he said that's it, there is no fun in watching it anymore. I've told him, get to Gresty Road as I have never understood how anyone can have ST in other areas even PL ones....If someone gave me a ManU ST for free, I wouldn't go as I said..

I actually asked Dario personally at a match why all the players go back for corners when that makes no sense? His reply may surprise you, he just shrugged his shoulders and said.."Everyone does it"....Its true that one time the emphasis was on attack with 5 forwards and scoring goals and then the Don Revie era with Leeds started the 'Don't let them score philosophy and just put one Striker up front and that has lasted what 40 odd years or more? I forget now? Don't be surprised if it changes back again!

Players don't need 'coaching' re basic skills, they have that in spades and why you can see that in ten year olds, what Dario did was simple. It was to recognise natural ability and then, the word is not coaching but 'developing' them by giving them competitive games ie the OPPORTUNITY to play league football. IF coaching is so good then why oh why is not throw ins practiced, developed or 'coached'? There are certain players and Vale had one who can throw the ball into the six yard box and so how do they do that? We struggle to throw it five yards and maybe the reason is physical capability where youngsters in the academy are not strong enough and so its never practiced...

I still say that coaching or developing 8 year olds is not sensible for a club our size. I think 15 year old's is about right just as they are coming into adulthood. I'm not sure what financial savings that would mean though? There must be hundreds of players at that age and older in amateur football who are as good if not better than many coming through our academy system because for the very simple reason is we are stuck with what we can get locally and most won't be good enough when they get to 17...that is a lot of money down the drain when its not necessary anyway....IMO of course.

Now here one that few would recognise today. Some old timers will here though!

In the old days they allowed shoulder charging when players could heave their shoulders at the body of another player INCLUDING the goalkeeper and goals were actually awarded if you could force the GK over the line by doing that and was in the rules...Could you see some of our lads and goalkeepers in that situation today? I thought it was good, Nat Lofthouse scored many a goal doing that and Ray Wood got his collar bone broke in a ManU FA cup final...Bert Troutman too I think?

Not exactly rose coloured spec, more than it really was a 'man' game and maybe, just maybe, why I have never taken to watching academy graduates until they start shaving!

[AstonAlex]

Well if you want to go back to the ‘good old days’ when physical assaults were part and parcel of football then, quite frankly, you’re welcome to it. Jimmy Case, for one, may have been a hard man, but he can’t walk without the aid of sticks now as his ‘style’ of play wrecked his own knees, never mind those he assaulted on the pitch. And if your idea of entertainment is going out to watch centre forwards bundle goalkeepers into the back of the net at will, or kick them in the head as happened to Bert Trautmann (he was German, that’s why he spelt his name that way) then that is your prerogative.

I would rather see those players with talent, be they Bobby Charlton, Martin Peters, Lionel Messi or one of our Academy lads, protected from such physical battery. Have things swung too far? Possibly. Do I want to see a return to what you describe as a man’s game? No I don’t, because it was closer to a thug’s game at times.

As you may know, I’m not local and have only lived in the area for 30 years so don’t remember these players of whom you speak. However, I do know that I support the Alex not just because they’ve been my local team for half my life, but also because they play the sort of attractive attacking football I enjoy - or at least they try to! If their style of football resembled that offered by Newport, Wycombe, Lincoln or the like week in, week out I would long since have stopped my season ticket.

Although what this whole debate has to do with the topic of this thread god knows. Somehow it’s always twisted back to the Academy and the so called Good Old Days. I assume Mike will be donning a frock coat, top hat and tickling stick next and giving us 5 hours at the Lyceum next!!

[MikeSB]

Well if you want to go back to the ‘good old days’ when physical assaults were part and parcel of football then, quite frankly, you’re welcome to it. Jimmy Case, for one, may have been a hard man, but he can’t walk without the aid of sticks now as his ‘style’ of play wrecked his own knees, never mind those he assaulted on the pitch. And if your idea of entertainment is going out to watch centre forwards bundle goalkeepers into the back of the net at will, or kick them in the head as happened to Bert Trautmann (he was German, that’s why he spelt his name that way) then that is your prerogative.

I would rather see those players with talent, be they Bobby Charlton, Martin Peters, Lionel Messi or one of our Academy lads, protected from such physical battery. Have things swung too far? Possibly. Do I want to see a return to what you describe as a man’s game? No I don’t, because it was closer to a thug’s game at times.

As you may know, I’m not local and have only lived in the area for 30 years so don’t remember these players of whom you speak. However, I do know that I support the Alex not just because they’ve been my local team for half my life, but also because they play the sort of attractive attacking football I enjoy - or at least they try to! If their style of football resembled that offered by Newport, Wycombe, Lincoln or the like week in, week out I would long since have stopped my season ticket.

Although what this whole debate has to do with the topic of this thread god knows. Somehow it’s always twisted back to the Academy and the so called Good Old Days. I assume Mike will be donning a frock coat, top hat and tickling stick next and giving us 5 hours at the Lyceum next!!

You are being so naive its unbelievable. If you haven't see those days then you are in NO position to judge are you.

There were some serious injuries but very very few and can't think of any Alex player from that era getting seriously injured. If you want to watch ballet dancing that's fine but it was a really great time to be watching the really great players of the time and many were ours too...

You are too timid and as I said, its a matter of opinion and the teams you mentioned or even ours now could not live with the players I watched. They also could not play on the pitches and most of the academy kids we see would not have made it back then.

It was not a thugs game at all, it was a MAN'S game for men and if you really want to see academy kids, then go and watch them at RH for free...23 quid for ballet is far too much for me and tens of thousands of others that used to watch those MEN's games. I have to say that when I do go to Gresty Road, all I hear is a load of moaning. Its not somewhere you will find me that many times and so keep paying to watch the girlies play...

The academy has to come into every discussion because we are an academy team mostly and that costs a cool one million pounds per season to be where? Check the league tables for the last few years..

[AstonAlex]

Not naive, Mike, just more open to change and prepared to move with the times. Oh, and it doesn’t cost me (or you) £23 to watch the mighty reds. £17 for a ticket in the main stand for senior citizens or £208 for a season ticket, which works out at £9.04 per match.

Check your facts, get some perspective and, while your at it, a sense of humour wouldn’t go amiss - I’ll get me tin hat now.

[Timmy58]

You are being so naive its unbelievable. If you haven't see those days then you are in NO position to judge are you.

There were some serious injuries but very very few and can't think of any Alex player from that era getting seriously injured. If you want to watch ballet dancing that's fine but it was a really great time to be watching the really great players of the time and many were ours too...

You are too timid and as I said, its a matter of opinion and the teams you mentioned or even ours now could not live with the players I watched. They also could not play on the pitches and most of the academy kids we see would not have made it back then.

It was not a thugs game at all, it was a MAN'S game for men and if you really want to see academy kids, then go and watch them at RH for free...23 quid for ballet is far too much for me and tens of thousands of others that used to watch those MEN's games. I have to say that when I do go to Gresty Road, all I hear is a load of moaning. Its not somewhere you will find me that many times and so keep paying to watch the girlies play...

The academy has to come into every discussion because we are an academy team mostly and that costs a cool one million pounds per season to be where? Check the league tables for the last few years..

To be fair Mke, Ballet is an art relying on extreme fitness and strength whilst at the same time appearing very delicate and dainty. Ballet is not my cup of tea at all, but the thought of Jordan Bowery in a tutu could be quite amusing. Maybe against Cheltenham!! On the subject of cost, £23 for ballet, or any form of theatrical entertainment is not expensive and whilst the price of attending a football match may seem expensive it is probably comparable. The concessions for old timers like myself make it affordable and I share Aston's view totally that harking back to the "good old days" when common assault was permitted on a football pitch in the name of tackling would be a backward step and the game would be less appealing. If you want a debate on what has gone wrong with English football then lets have one but maybe not on a thread about our manager's position. I, personally love watching our youngsters come into the team and show their skills in meaningful competition. Would not wish to go back to the days of thugs like Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter and Jimmy Case. Aston could doubtless offer more names but it is irrelevant to today's game because it is geared towards fitter and more skillful players due to, you guessed it, training and coaching. Coaching benefits sportsmen and women in all sports.

[MikeSB]

To be fair Mke, Ballet is an art relying on extreme fitness and strength whilst at the same time appearing very delicate and dainty. Ballet is not my cup of tea at all, but the thought of Jordan Bowery in a tutu could be quite amusing. Maybe against Cheltenham!! On the subject of cost, £23 for ballet, or any form of theatrical entertainment is not expensive and whilst the price of attending a football match may seem expensive it is probably comparable. The concessions for old timers like myself make it affordable and I share Aston's view totally that harking back to the "good old days" when common assault was permitted on a football pitch in the name of tackling would be a backward step and the game would be less appealing. If you want a debate on what has gone wrong with English football then lets have one but maybe not on a thread about our manager's position. I, personally love watching our youngsters come into the team and show their skills in meaningful competition. Would not wish to go back to the days of thugs like Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter and Jimmy Case. Aston could doubtless offer more names but it is irrelevant to today's game because it is geared towards fitter and more skillful players due to, you guessed it, training and coaching. Coaching benefits sportsmen and women in all sports.

Aston, I do have a great sense of humour but taking Timmy's point about the game having more skilful players as a result of erm, coaching...I will disagree with that until the cows come home as they are not in anyway more skilful than the likes of Greaves, Best and Charlton and many many players I have seen at Gresty Road and yes its boring to some to hark on about the past and maybe its just an age thing when we think of the best and forget the worst etc but I can see Greaves now dancing through defences and Jimmy White placing the ball in the top corner and I would argue that packed defences lead to poor quality of matches, less skill as they either mispass the ball or hoof it up the pitch and how many times do we see players doing what those great players of yesteryear did? Messi is on a par with them. No Crewe player has scored more hat tricks than Lord and that must tell us something that is not done at all today very often no matter what league they are in. I don't think I have seen much 'skill at all at Gresty Road these last few years tbh.

Coaching or as I prefer the term developing takes place naturally as I explained, I was a better player at 21 than 18 and better at 18 than 15...nowt to do with coaching..

Developing natural talent is quite easy as its just down to recognising that at around age 16 plus and the opportunity and our academy makes the point really. No other lower league club has our level apart from a couple...48 clubs and just two or three prefer to spend a million pounds a year and most are more successful than we are and I would suggest that continuing with our model will not achieve much success nowadays as the players in the lower leagues are fit and strong and few academy graduates can cope until they have had two or three seasons at this level and developing their bodies in the meantime...

Coaching 8 year old is nonsense and always will be...Not just that, if they are really really good, then some other club will come in way before we get the benefit and we haven't even touched on the prima donnas who refuse to sign contracts is another nail in the coffin don't you think?

BTW, I accept us seniors get to pay 17 quid for a match and ST's lower that but you know even with inflation the costs are way about what they were and when you compare what was on offer then, to what is on offer now, probably a fiver is about right.... ....

[Timmy58]

Aston, I do have a great sense of humour but taking Timmy's point about the game having more skilful players as a result of erm, coaching...I will disagree with that until the cows come home as they are not in anyway more skilful than the likes of Greaves, Best and Charlton and many many players I have seen at Gresty Road and yes its boring to some to hark on about the past and maybe its just an age thing when we think of the best and forget the worst etc but I can see Greaves now dancing through defences and Jimmy White placing the ball in the top corner and I would argue that packed defences lead to poor quality of matches, less skill as they either mispass the ball or hoof it up the pitch and how many times do we see players doing what those great players of yesteryear did? Messi is on a par with them. No Crewe player has scored more hat tricks than Lord and that must tell us something that is not done at all today very often no matter what league they are in. I don't think I have seen much 'skill at all at Gresty Road these last few years tbh.

Coaching or as I prefer the term developing takes place naturally as I explained, I was a better player at 21 than 18 and better at 18 than 15...nowt to do with coaching..

Developing natural talent is quite easy as its just down to recognising that at around age 16 plus and the opportunity and our academy makes the point really. No other lower league club has our level apart from a couple...48 clubs and just two or three prefer to spend a million pounds a year and most are more successful than we are and I would suggest that continuing with our model will not achieve much success nowadays as the players in the lower leagues are fit and strong and few academy graduates can cope until they have had two or three seasons at this level and developing their bodies in the meantime...

Coaching 8 year old is nonsense and always will be...Not just that, if they are really really good, then some other club will come in way before we get the benefit and we haven't even touched on the prima donnas who refuse to sign contracts is another nail in the coffin don't you think?

BTW, I accept us seniors get to pay 17 quid for a match and ST's lower that but you know even with inflation the costs are way about what they were and when you compare what was on offer then, to what is on offer now, probably a fiver is about right.... ....

Coaching is clearly not nonsense, but you are entitle to your view however misguided I consider it. As for a fiver to watch a football match. You seriously need to catch the first train out of cloud cuckoo land if you think that is reasonable or need feasible. There wouldn't be a football club left at that rate!

[gazan]

player seriously injured in the 60s? Easy - one Gordon Wallace an Alex star of his time. He did recover enough to reappear in a red shirt but didn't last long.
Let's think about the 'men' of that era Norman Hunter, Ron Harris and Case (mentioned above) or closer to home Alan Summerhill or Ray Lugg. They weren't called destroyers for nothing!

[gazan]

As for Frank Lord scoring more hat-tricks... that just underlines the fact that defences were less skillful in those days.
There were probably too many playing a 'man's game' to be any good at real defending!