Progress

[charlespalmer]

Are we really making any*? Is it even possible for an L2 club to make consistent (year-on-year) progress any more?

This season's promotion push was built largely on the back of Jorge Grant's 15 league goals and Ryan Yates's domineering midfield performances. Without these two players, we would probably have finished in the bottom half of the table again. Next season, we will have neither--and will be reliant on winning the "loanee lottery" once more.

Sure, we have money available to buy a player or two, but that was the case last year (when we allegedly nearly splashed £100K on Liam Noble).

(*I'm talking about on-field progress here, not off-field progress. Off-the-field, we have been outstanding. The club is professionally run for the first time in ages and Nolan is an excellent, streetwise manager. Yes, the football was ugly, but it was highly effective given the limited capabilities of our squad. Had Sheridan, Fullarton or Cooper been at the helm--shudder--we would almost certainly have been relegated!)

[jackal2]

I think it is possible for lower league clubs to make slow and steady progress. Indeed, the smaller the club and the more limited the resources, the more you have to rely on that approach. We've seen it with a club like Wycombe, who went through a couple of near misses with Gareth Ainsworth before finally getting their promotion this season. Likewise, we've seen a club like Burton Albion take the slow and steady route up through several divisions. They've had a setback this season, but in a league nobody would have believed they could reach a few years ago.

I take your point that during that gradual upwards journey you will gain and lose influential players, but the above clubs have shown that if the ethos of the club is right, and if good managers are selected and given time, the rewards are more likely to come. Accrington are another prime example of a club that has stuck to a pretty solid blueprint despite limited resources and all sorts of player arrival departures. they have had all sorts of ups and downs within recent seasons in League two, but take step back and look at their broader progress graph over the last (say) 15 years and the upwards trajectory is there for all to see.

[charlespalmer]

I think it is possible for lower league clubs to make slow and steady progress. Indeed, the smaller the club and the more limited the resources, the more you have to rely on that approach. We've seen it with a club like Wycombe, who went through a couple of near misses with Gareth Ainsworth before finally getting their promotion this season. Likewise, we've seen a club like Burton Albion take the slow and steady route up through several divisions. They've had a setback this season, but in a league nobody would have believed they could reach a few years ago.

I take your point that during that gradual upwards journey you will gain and lose influential players, but the above clubs have shown that if the ethos of the club is right, and if good managers are selected and given time, the rewards are more likely to come. Accrington are another prime example of a club that has stuck to a pretty solid blueprint despite limited resources and all sorts of player arrival departures. they have had all sorts of ups and downs within recent seasons in League two, but take step back and look at their broader progress graph over the last (say) 15 years and the upwards trajectory is there for all to see.

All very good points. However, when you look at our recently published "retained" list, do you see the nucleus of side that is going to be successful over a sustained period? Or do you see a side that is ageing, infirm and only going to get worse?

(I know, I know...a lot depends on who we recruit over the summer.)

[jackal2]

All very good points. However, when you look at our recently published "retained" list, do you see the nucleus of side that is going to be successful over a sustained period? Or do you see a side that is ageing, infirm and only going to get worse?

(I know, I know...a lot depends on who we recruit over the summer.)

To be fair I think Nolan's release list has disposed of most of the ageing brigade, including a couple of surprises in terms of Adam Collin and (maybe) Rob Milsom and Carl Dickinson.

The obvious mistake for me is retaining Jon Stead. If he had been entitled to a trigger clause at all last summer, it should have been based on a goals target, not an appearances target. As it is, we've been forced to keep a player who is clearly now in decline and whose goal output is gradually drying up. I can only see him as a very average back-up player, hence why I think a new centre forward and two pacey support strikers are essential this summer.

The rest of the retained list was pretty much what I expected, and my only real gripe is with Liam Noble, who I thought was a liability during his first spell, and is now just a waste of space. We gave him an eigh**** month contract, so we can't get rid at present, but for me that's a wasted shirt in the squad.

The rest of the remaining squad for me looks like a good base from which to build, including players like Hewitt, Tootle and Jones who have done well this season. You're right, there is certainly a lot of recruitment work to be done in the forward and defensive positions to give us extra quality and depth, but ditto most other clubs at this stage in the summer.

[Airborn Pie]

To have any chance of long term improvement, a club needs to get to the Prem and stay there for three years, get the tv money rolling in. You can't tell me that Bournemouth could buy the players they have on gate money alone.

Even if you end up as one of those yo-yo clubs, flirting with the Prem on a regular basis is the only way, it's money, pure and simple. They even get multi million pund 'parachute' payments if they go down which already gives them a massive advantage for the following season.

[jackal2]

You can't tell me that Bournemouth could buy the players they have on gate money alone.

Bournemouth's rise has been, and still is, bankrolled by their billionaire Russian owner, Maxim Demin. It's not quite the fairytale some portray it to be, but good luck to them anyway.

[LaughingMagpie]

Have we made progress? The simple answer is no, we are still in league 2.

We may have finished higher this season but it means nothing next season. Indeed we have missed out on the playoffs before and have been relegated the following season. We have to treat each season differently and a lot does depend on the recruitment this summer.

am I optimistic for the new season? You bet I am. I'm looking forward to some quality signings and some exciting football.

In Nolan/Hardy we trust!

[sidders]

To have any chance of long term improvement, a club needs to get to the Prem and stay there for three years, get the tv money rolling in. You can't tell me that Bournemouth could buy the players they have on gate money alone.

Even if you end up as one of those yo-yo clubs, flirting with the Prem on a regular basis is the only way, it's money, pure and simple. They even get multi million pund 'parachute' payments if they go down which already gives them a massive advantage for the following season.

I believe that not one Prem club - no, not even Man U - makes a profit on gate takings alone. TV and merchandising are central to budgetary success in the modern age.

[Frigiliana Pie 1]

All very good points. However, when you look at our recently published "retained" list, do you see the nucleus of side that is going to be successful over a sustained period? Or do you see a side that is ageing, infirm and only going to get worse?

(I know, I know...a lot depends on who we recruit over the summer.)

Yes I do see the nucleus of a side which can be successful next season, though perhaps not over an extended period - which would really be asking a lot of any League 2 club. Next season there will be continuity in the back 4 and also in central midfield where Hewitt and O’Connor can form a strong partnership. Added to which, Husin and possibly Fitzsimons have the potential to become first team regulars. It’s the other positions, particularly the strikers, which we need to get nailed down.

Charles is quite right about the progress which has been made off the field and improved attendances, combined with the sort of stability and improved infrastructure which Notts are now working on should lead, sooner or later (hopefully sooner) to success on the field.

[ncfcog]

Personally i think the retained list was spot on and showed the intention the club has with regards to progress on the field.

Anyone who managed to watch a dozen or more games lat season will know that there is very little to set teams apart in L2. In reality we were just two bad games or a couple of dodgy decisions away from making the top 3 never mind the play off's.

Add to this AH has already said two or three strikers are a priority you finally begin to think there may be something to take positives from for next season.

Someone posted a 4-4-2 of the players released this season, if hypothetically that team could stay match fit and play every game next season in L2 I reckon they could still finish mid table compared to some of the teams that visited ML last season. The retained list is younger and has the potential for future development and indeed progress so I remain hopeful.