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Thread: OT. Shamima Begum

  1. #71
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    No regrets, no remorse, not sorry. Seeing the beheadings online convinced her supporting Daesh was righteous. I find it hard to find any sympathy.

    If she is to have any chance of ever being allowed back it will only be after a lengthy spell of rehab (rehab there not here)
    and brainwash reversal. With her current attitude, from what we have seen in interviews, no thanks.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    No regrets, no remorse, not sorry. Seeing the beheadings online convinced her supporting Daesh was righteous. I find it hard to find any sympathy.

    If she is to have any chance of ever being allowed back it will only be after a lengthy spell of rehab (rehab there not here)
    and brainwash reversal. With her current attitude, from what we have seen in interviews, no thanks.
    Your kind of missing the point - I'm not expressing sympathy,I'm looking at the facts - also was it seeing beheadings that made her support the cause? Yes she was effectviely groomed but unless you can quote otherwise, there is no indication of how or what material was used?

    Not strictly true to say she has no remorse, all you are reading is second hand reports, she is still very young and young people do and say very silly things,

    BUT as Anag says, she is our responsibility to deal with and we have let far worse back into the country - people who have actually participated in atrocities and dealt with them as a civilized country should, in accordance with the rule of law.

  3. #73
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    Good news for her, she is being flown back to England.

    Bad news, her flight was with Thomas Cook

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    Good news for her, she is being flown back to England.

    Bad news, her flight was with Thomas Cook
    Fake news but still amusing.

    I think she will be allowed back for her appeal, whenever that gets to court, as that is her right under UK Law. There will be all sorts of protests from all over the place about that but, as BoJo found out this week, the Law applies to everybody.

  5. #75
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    Its not fake news at all - I just made it up as a joke

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    I think she will be allowed back for her appeal, whenever that gets to court, as that is her right under UK Law. There will be all sorts of protests from all over the place about that but, as BoJo found out this week, the Law applies to everybody.
    This is an intriguing "chicken and egg" argument. As she is no longer a British citizen, does she have any rights under British law? or is there an "innocent until proven guilty" argument that says she can benefit from these laws whilst working out whether she is entitled to benefit from them, especially since her crimes did not take place in Britain? Its all to complicated for my brain: cant we just ask the Mossad to resolve the dilemma?

  7. #77
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    Looks like the courts didn't get MA's memo, of course she can still appeal but must do it from Syria. Love all the lawyers and human rights supporters comments that it sets a precedent, yes it does - you decide to leave your country of birth or at least the country that have given you citizenship to go and fight along side the enemy then yes you won't be welcomed back when it all goes t1ts up for you

  8. #78
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    I'm sure she will get given a priority covid vaccination as well as she is so vulnerable. We can fly a crack team of medics out there to give her a personalised service in no time at all!

    I had thought all the hue and cry had died down on this one, but then, like a magical bad penny, here it is again. England 1 Birnberg Pierce 0

  9. #79
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    There is talk of investigating her involvement in terrorist activities etc to see if she should be allowed back. That's not going to reveal anything is it? As I understand it the womenfolk of ISIS are chattels anyway, not active fighters, and there simply to provide ***ual and domestic relief to the "armed forces" - as evidenced by the fact that this is her 3rd child at age 19....

    I despair. A couple of generations ago we castigated and imprisoned those who would not fight for our own country. Now we are expected to welcome back those who left to join an "army" that was an enemy of our state and beheaded, amongst others, a British journalist on film for a laugh....[/QUOTE]

    Well lets take some perspective on this because we are mixing abhorrence that anybody should want to associate themselves with ISIS and how citizens should be treated under the rule of law.




    First, nobody is saying we are expected to "welcome" back those who joined an enemy of the state. If she came back, as indeed many other British Citizens who joined or involved with ISIS have done, she would be subject to criminal investigation charges and potential imprisonment.

    Second - under International law, a country is expected to take back and deal with terrorists and criminals, stripping somebody of their citizenship is actually a breach of international law, but it is also a dangerous act, it risks further radicalisation of stateless people who will be at large and vulnerable to being recruited for further terrorism, the most effective way of dealing with these people is for each country to accept responsibility for them and deal with them appropriately.

    The US government has repatriated its nationals in the camps, and the Biden administration recently argued that “beyond being the best option from a security standpoint, repatriation is also simply the right thing to do.” Germany, Finland and Ukraine have also begun repatriating their nationals from the camps.

    Third - the implication is that she went voluntarily, thats a convenient government argument, but is that actually the case? Under law, and remember we are a country that prides itself as law abiding, both domestically and internationally, she was a child when she went, who knows the extent of the grooming and radicalisation she was subjected to - we don't infer that the victims of child abuse that are of a similar age were willing - though it was exactly that view held by the police, social workers and other authorities that these were "problem" children responsible for the situation they got themselves into, that resulted in them being ignored for so long. If thats not acceptable in child abuse for a minor, its not acceptable for someone groomed for terrorism.

    The government are playing a cynical game here, trying to ignore her situation and that of many others, knowing this plays well, as evidenced by the responses on here, by many. Now the emotional responses I can understand, though perhaps one needs to ask oneself are we in full possession of all the facts, rather than a story concocted by the media fed by a government who sees it as politically convenient.

    My view is clear, under International Law the UK is obliged to take back its citizens and deal with them appropriately within the rule of law in this country. Thats is not only the right thing to do, but it is also the safest thing to do for the UK citizens, its the job of government to rise above the natural emotional responses in these cases and act properly and in accordance whats right for the security of the country.

    This issue will not go away, because at some time the Government will have to deal with the situation and fulfil its obligations under international law.

  10. #80
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    May 2018
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    You seem to miss the point entirely here Swale

    I believe the government believes that it has dealt with it by perfectly legally stripping citizenship from a dual national and not leaving her stateless (albeit there is some uncertainty about the Bangladeshi nationality - lets face it everyone wants to distance themselves from this woman). It has thus "fulfilled its obligation under international law" and has no further responsibility. She is appealing that stripping, and wanted to enter this country to manage her appeal. This is what she has lost this case on.

    So she will then have to win the appeal and regain British citizenship.

    If she does that, then the points you raise has validity because she becomes our responsibility again. But until then, she doesn't. There is no "innocent until proved otherwise" about it, its simply a civil court matter based on fact and law. I dont know enough about the detail to comment on how said appeal might go and a lot of the evidence given to the recent case has been redacted so we will not know for many years to come

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