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Thread: OT. Shamima Begum

  1. #1
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    OT. Shamima Begum

    This one could attract stronger opinion than Brexit did, sorry all football only fans and OTR.

    It is the story about one of the 3 East London girls who went to fight alongside their ISIS brothers a few years ago. Now ISIS have been defeated she wants to "come home" to have her baby.

    You bet your sweet arse she does as that way she can get access to the NHS and live off the very state that she previously despised and vilified.

    I'm not sure if her past actions meant that she lost her rights to British citizenship, or what, but I would say she can **** right off. She made her own bed, now she can live in it.

    There are millions of refugees created by this conflict, all more worthy of our compassion than her, and I would say she should get to the back of the queue behind all of them if she is seeking asylum "back home".

    Thoughts??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    This one could attract stronger opinion than Brexit did, sorry all football only fans and OTR.

    It is the story about one of the 3 East London girls who went to fight alongside their ISIS brothers a few years ago. Now ISIS have been defeated she wants to "come home" to have her baby.

    You bet your sweet arse she does as that way she can get access to the NHS and live off the very state that she previously despised and vilified.

    I'm not sure if her past actions meant that she lost her rights to British citizenship, or what, but I would say she can **** right off. She made her own bed, now she can live in it.

    There are millions of refugees created by this conflict, all more worthy of our compassion than her, and I would say she should get to the back of the queue behind all of them if she is seeking asylum "back home".

    Thoughts??
    Understand your sentiments entirely GP and it’s an easy conclusion to come to.
    In her defence, and I think this is the only one...she was I believe just fif**** years old when she left. She went to join an organisation which I despise just as much as you...but one which is obviously well equipped to manipulate young minds.
    Investigate her activities by all means but she won’t be the first of the young and possibly naively stupid to have her head tired by religious/political extremists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Understand your sentiments entirely GP and it’s an easy conclusion to come to.
    In her defence, and I think this is the only one...she was I believe just fif**** years old when she left. She went to join an organisation which I despise just as much as you...but one which is obviously well equipped to manipulate young minds.
    Investigate her activities by all means but she won’t be the first of the young and possibly naively stupid to have her head tired by religious/political extremists.
    RA agree to a certain extent but according to the news she has no regrets and refuses to apologise for the course she took She has already allegedly had two children die She will be allowed back that's for sure with this country even though she has a European passport now and could go to any of the other 26 Don't want to appear heartless but what kind of message does it send out to anybody else considering doing the same But she will be back (human rights etc) and closely monitered

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    Your point is well made but she was mature enough to make a decision (perhaps under duress) and then to follow it through by flying to Turkey and making her way across international borders to join up. That is not the action of a naive innocent.

    Also don't forget she is carrying the child of a fellow "freedom fighter" who is currently incarcerated. If we allow this to happen, then what happens when the father wants to join his family etc.....

    There is talk of investigating her involvement in terrorist activities etc to see if she should be allowed back. That's not going to reveal anything is it? As I understand it the womenfolk of ISIS are chattels anyway, not active fighters, and there simply to provide ***ual and domestic relief to the "armed forces" - as evidenced by the fact that this is her 3rd child at age 19....

    I despair. A couple of generations ago we castigated and imprisoned those who would not fight for our own country. Now we are expected to welcome back those who left to join an "army" that was an enemy of our state and beheaded, amongst others, a British journalist on film for a laugh....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    Your point is well made but she was mature enough to make a decision (perhaps under duress) and then to follow it through by flying to Turkey and making her way across international borders to join up. That is not the action of a naive innocent.

    Also don't forget she is carrying the child of a fellow "freedom fighter" who is currently incarcerated. If we allow this to happen, then what happens when the father wants to join his family etc.....

    There is talk of investigating her involvement in terrorist activities etc to see if she should be allowed back. That's not going to reveal anything is it? As I understand it the womenfolk of ISIS are chattels anyway, not active fighters, and there simply to provide ***ual and domestic relief to the "armed forces" - as evidenced by the fact that this is her 3rd child at age 19....

    I despair. A couple of generations ago we castigated and imprisoned those who would not fight for our own country. Now we are expected to welcome back those who left to join an "army" that was an enemy of our state and beheaded, amongst others, a British journalist on film for a laugh....
    Geoff for to agree wonder what the family of Lee Rigby think about it Or the parents of the children killed in the Manchester bombing

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    She was just 15 but has no regrets.... other than they didn't "win". She should be left out there IMO. She wanted to go, she can stay. I feel for the baby though as he/she didn't ask to be born in such a hell hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaram View Post
    Geoff for to agree wonder what the family of Lee Rigby think about it Or the parents of the children killed in the Manchester bombing
    In my opinion mista...you also have to ask what HER family were doing. As with many, not all I know, at the other end of the spectrum...the parents of children who were victims of grooming gangs...what were the parents doing to allow their children to get into such situations?
    Being a parent isn’t always easy but there seems to have been an abdication of parental responsibility in all too many of these cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    In my opinion mista...you also have to ask what HER family were doing. As with many, not all I know, at the other end of the spectrum...the parents of children who were victims of grooming gangs...what were the parents doing to allow their children to get into such situations?
    Being a parent isn’t always easy but there seems to have been an abdication of parental responsibility in all too many of these cases.
    Sorry to be off the OP but don't play the apologist about grooming gangs RA, focus on the perpetrators in such cases not the (admittedly in some cases but not all, delinquent) parents. Its the apologist attitude that allowed (and may well still be allowing) such atrocities to happen. I can actually understand the mindset/motivation of the animals that carried such acts out but despite deep thought I CANNOT understand why or how legions of people who were in the position to act chose to excuse/divert attention/deny. Yes I do have a strong opinion on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    I despair. A couple of generations ago we castigated and imprisoned those who would not fight for our own country. Now we are expected to welcome back those who left to join an "army" that was an enemy of our state and beheaded, amongst others, a British journalist on film for a laugh....
    Totally in agreement. How and why did it all go wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    Sorry to be off the OP but don't play the apologist about grooming gangs RA, focus on the perpetrators in such cases not the (admittedly in some cases but not all, delinquent) parents. Its the apologist attitude that allowed (and may well still be allowing) such atrocities to happen. I can actually understand the mindset/motivation of the animals that carried such acts out but despite deep thought I CANNOT understand why or how legions of people who were in the position to act chose to excuse/divert attention/deny. Yes I do have a strong opinion on this.
    ‘Play the apologist’...that’s a ridiculous and somewhat offensive suggestion Andy.
    As you know I wholeheartedly condemn all those involved in ‘grooming gangs’...I also condemn those who, misguidedly rather than maliciously, sought to divert attention away from the problem...on top of which I also have a professional ‘take’ on what was happening which I suspect you don’t.
    Someone else brought up the matter of parental reaction and my simple point is that...there is a degree of irony involved in my suspicion that in both the case of Shamima Begum and the majority of the grooming gang’s victims there is likely to be a similar degree of parental incompetence and abdication of responsibility involved.

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